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 A "teachers corner".... 
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Post A "teachers corner"....
How about having a slot here @ Stickist called "Teachers Corner", where esteemed teachers on the instrument can share tidbits of information on technique, sound etc. I know there is a subheading for Method, however these posts seem few and far between. Greg and SteveA always have good stuff to share... Would like to hear from others as well. What a great community we have


Tue Jun 21, 2016 12:22 pm
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Post Re: A "teachers corner"....
Ah....putting us in the corner, will you?
Would much prefer a softer curve area.

So here's a teacher's question to get the creative brain going.
For solos how would you treat this progression?

Il: Am7 :ll II: Cm7 :ll. Il: Ebm7 :ll ll: Gbm7 :ll
4x. 4x. 4x. 4x


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Tue Jun 21, 2016 1:10 pm
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Post Re: A "teachers corner"....
Lee Vatip wrote:
Ah....putting us in the corner, will you?
Would much prefer a softer curve area.

So here's a teacher's question to get the creative brain going.
For solos how would you treat this progression?

Il: Am7 :ll II: Cm7 :ll. Il: Ebm7 :ll ll: Gbm7 :ll
4x. 4x. 4x. 4x


Kang Guru


First, I'd marinate the musician with copious amounts of alcohol. It gets the fingers moving, dontcha know.

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Tue Jun 21, 2016 1:16 pm
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Post Re: A "teachers corner"....
A blues scale

Eb blues scale


Tue Jun 21, 2016 1:22 pm
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Post Re: A "teachers corner"....
Diminished progression through minor sevenths?

Sounds like a bad baseball analogy.

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Tue Jun 21, 2016 1:35 pm
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Post Re: A "teachers corner"....
Lee Vatip wrote:
Ah....putting us in the corner, will you?
Would much prefer a softer curve area.

So here's a teacher's question to get the creative brain going.
For solos how would you treat this progression?

Il: Am7 :ll II: Cm7 :ll. Il: Ebm7 :ll ll: Gbm7 :ll
4x. 4x. 4x. 4x


Kang Guru


Let me know if I made any typos here, should be good... Also, feel free to let me know if I hurt anyone's feelings or overstepped by posting this. I just like music, don't wanna hurt nobody...

Subject to interpretation, in my mind this is modal interchange and here is one scenario; 4 modal 4 measure "vamps" Ami7 is mode6 of C (The next chord in the progression) so A Aeolian (Amin/Cmaj) is probably the best fit. Then it goes to C, but it is NOT C major, but rather C minor, with the next chord being Eb. Cmi7 is mode6 of Eb, so once again, C Aeolian (Cmin/Ebmaj) is your best option here. Once again, Eb is NOT major, but minor so the mode has been substituted, and also once again, Eb Aeolian (Natural Minor) is the most likely option since the next chord root is Gb which again gives us that relative minor/mode 6 thing. Gb minor, is an interesting one. Rewritten as "F#min7" that puts us into yet another "Mode6 of" situation where the root of the FIRST chord (A) is the relative major, so F#minor/Amajor is the most likely bet here also, so that the cycle continues. Another observation is that the chord progression's root notes spell out an A Dim7 Chord, stacked minor thirds ACEbGb.

Now, there are some factors that we should probably keep in mind here; what notes are being played in the bass? Is your bass player hell bent on playing Dorian modes for each of them? It works. So does Phrygian for each of the chords. Or a mixture of Aeolian, Dorian and Phrygian could be superimposed, all depending on what fine folks in your rhythm section are doing. I mean you COULD play Dorianb9 modes for each chord if you wanted, but again... the backing and the tensions being included in said backing are what will dictate the overall tonality. One could make it as simple or complex as one desired... More than one way to skin a cat, but I guess you just have to ask yourself just how far removed from the core progression do you wish to be? How individual do you want it? I think that anything can be superimposed over anything else, but it really depends on what you want to express...

And of course, all of the diatonic harmony to each 4 measure "vamp" is fair game, all of your pentatonic ideas and triad and 7th arpeggios. And you can "approach" the diatonic notes from a half step above or below, etc etc. Whatever. I guess at the end of the day though, it's about what notes sound good to you in that moment...

I played two quick passes, one clean and one dirty over the progression. I used my daughter's Junior Squire, so pardon the intonation.The clean bit I kept diatonic to each of the chords; Amin7, Cmin7, Ebmin7 Gbmin7 as natural minors. The dirty solo, I just kind of noodled around the tonal centres and tried to use whatever might work... (Oh, and the Bassline is Stick, so I hope it's okay here.)

Fire away...


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Tue Jun 21, 2016 3:24 pm
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Post Re: A "teachers corner"....
Sounds cool Scott! Fun bass line too. It sounds very bass like for being played on a Stick. You really know your stuff! I often feel like I want to put more time into the theory of melodic playing. It is still kind of an enigma to me, though I am starting to make it happen slowly.

I guess for the "hurt feelings" comments you are referring to the "cool techniques" thread. I have read over your post and ensuing backlash several times. You DID start your comments with the phrase "This is gonna piss a lot of you guys off.." or something very much like that. And though I didn't see anything overly abrasive in your post, I am not a teacher or publisher of educational material, so perhaps I wouldn't see any offense there. On the other hand if your mentor thinks you off base, and you still want him to mentor you, maybe look a little harder at what he has to say.

If you want to put that stuff behind you, I would guess the best way would be to just let it blow over, and be yourself (I happen to enjoy your ideas and comments just the way they come out, with no filter necessary). And no apologetic preamble about not wanting to step on anyone's toes necessary either. Some people here might complain even if they were about to be hung with a brand new rope.

But back to the topic, cool jammin'. I dig the way you respond to the changing chords.

Mike

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Tue Jun 21, 2016 4:29 pm
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Post Re: A "teachers corner"....
no, no... just hoping to maybe not offend anyone right off the bat is all. Hope some of what I said made some kind of sense...

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Tue Jun 21, 2016 4:38 pm
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Post Re: A "teachers corner"....
Jayesskerr wrote:
Lee Vatip wrote:
Ah....putting us in the corner, will you?
Would much prefer a softer curve area.

So here's a teacher's question to get the creative brain going.
For solos how would you treat this progression?

Il: Am7 :ll II: Cm7 :ll. Il: Ebm7 :ll ll: Gbm7 :ll
4x. 4x. 4x. 4x


Kang Guru


Let me know if I made any typos here, should be good... Also, feel free to let me know if I hurt anyone's feelings or overstepped by posting this. I just like music, don't wanna hurt nobody...

Subject to interpretation, in my mind this is modal interchange and here is one scenario; 4 modal 4 measure "vamps" Ami7 is mode6 of C (The next chord in the progression) so A Aeolian (Amin/Cmaj) is probably the best fit. Then it goes to C, but it is NOT C major, but rather C minor, with the next chord being Eb. Cmi7 is mode6 of Eb, so once again, C Aeolian (Cmin/Ebmaj) is your best option here. Once again, Eb is NOT major, but minor so the mode has been substituted, and also once again, Eb Aeolian (Natural Minor) is the most likely option since the next chord root is Gb which again gives us that relative minor/mode 6 thing. Gb minor, is an interesting one. Rewritten as "F#min7" that puts us into yet another "Mode6 of" situation where the root of the FIRST chord (A) is the relative major, so F#minor/Amajor is the most likely bet here also, so that the cycle continues. Another observation is that the chord progression's root notes spell out an A Dim7 Chord, stacked minor thirds ACEbGb.

Now, there are some factors that we should probably keep in mind here; what notes are being played in the bass? Is your bass player hell bent on playing Dorian modes for each of them? It works. So does Phrygian for each of the chords. Or a mixture of Aeolian, Dorian and Phrygian could be superimposed, all depending on what fine folks in your rhythm section are doing. I mean you COULD play Dorianb9 modes for each chord if you wanted, but again... the backing and the tensions being included in said backing are what will dictate the overall tonality. One could make it as simple or complex as one desired... More than one way to skin a cat, but I guess you just have to ask yourself just how far removed from the core progression do you wish to be? How individual do you want it? I think that anything can be superimposed over anything else, but it really depends on what you want to express...

And of course, all of the diatonic harmony to each 4 measure "vamp" is fair game, all of your pentatonic ideas and triad and 7th arpeggios. And you can "approach" the diatonic notes from a half step above or below, etc etc. Whatever. I guess at the end of the day though, it's about what notes sound good to you in that moment...

I played two quick passes, one clean and one dirty over the progression. I used my daughter's Junior Squire, so pardon the intonation.The clean bit I kept diatonic to each of the chords; Amin7, Cmin7, Ebmin7 Gbmin7 as natural minors. The dirty solo, I just kind of noodled around the tonal centres and tried to use whatever might work... (Oh, and the Bassline is Stick, so I hope it's okay here.)

Fire away...
Damn, Scott, you are an overachiever mf'er after my own heart. Just look at all the thought and energy and talent you put into this chord analyzation and into rocking it out. You're my (guitar) hero!

And like Mike said, and I'll paraphrase, you stepped in it, you apologized, we all moved on, and you should not worry about it. God knows I'm hoping that everyone has forgotten when I've stepped in it! Just never mess up or misspeak again--no pressure! :)

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Tue Jun 21, 2016 4:43 pm
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Post Re: A "teachers corner"....
Lee Vatip wrote:
Ah....putting us in the corner, will you?
Would much prefer a softer curve area.

So here's a teacher's question to get the creative brain going.
For solos how would you treat this progression?

Il: Am7 :ll II: Cm7 :ll. Il: Ebm7 :ll ll: Gbm7 :ll
4x. 4x. 4x. 4x


Kang Guru

Very interesting...many ways to improvise on this...if I explain the first passage from Am7 to Cm7 that means you can choose a similar situation between the others. Let's forget about the m7 and let's take only A going to C, goin to Eb and finally to Gb...well a diminish progression. But we are talking about notes and not about chords.

First possibility is considering each chord as a Im7 chord. This way all chords are independant and we are in a situation of modal improvisation. Just the fact that you repeat 4x the same chord helps you to play this way.

But...the get a nice "passage" from a chord to another one you can choose "other non written chords" that drive yourself to the new tonality. Usually we do it at the end of a sequence...I give an example...you play 3 bars of Am7 but the fourth bar is a reference to lead you on the Cm7...that means you can improvise on Dm7b5 (2 beats) and G7alt (2 beats) resolving on Cm7. You can "think" about these passing chords without playing it...but you improvise on this progression. That'll give to the people listening to you a kind of "out of tonality" but in reallity you are inside the next chord.

There are so many possibilties...another example...a double chromatic approch...Bbm7 to Bm7 resolving on the Cm7...ascending of course...or a triple chromatic descending approach...Ebm7 to Dm7 to Dbm7 resolving on Cm7.

A diminish scale on Am7 on the 4th bar will also lead you to a Cm7 perfectly.

To play a V7 or V7alt (V7b9#5, etc) of the new chord on the 4th bar...that means in Am7 you play a G7alt to end on a Cm7 is working very well.

To get a very nice landing on the new chord, try to avoid the tonic and choose another target note...like the note D (9th) when you land on the Cm7. That could be a G (5th) or a Bb (dom 7th). It sounds richer and uou are in complete control of your improv.

Well there are so many other ways to go from one to the other...just explore...I give you a last example where you play on substitution chords...always from Am7 going to Cm7. I gave you earlier Dm7(b5) to G7 alt...let's take the tritone substitution of this G7 and this give you a Db7...if you play the IIm7 in relation with thi Db7 that means you can improvise on the 4th bar of the Am7 these ones...Abm7(b5) going to a Db7(b9) resolving on Cm7. It works perfectly...

Hoping it helps your improvisations...

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Tue Jun 21, 2016 5:31 pm
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