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 The source of creative music 
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Post The source of creative music
I was having a discussion with a friend, and we mused together enough to create this Venn Diagram. I offer it to you, Chapman Stick community, for your thoughts.

The *gist* of it is that certain types of music will fall into different parts of the diagram. Blues might be Spiritual and Expressive, but not heavy into technique or theory. Steve Vai might be heavy into technique and not much else. And so on. Well?


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Thu Nov 10, 2016 9:08 am
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Post Re: The source of creative music
Can you offer descriptions in context of the diagram? "Technique" and "Theory" however seem self-evident, however, what do you mean by "spiritual" and to a lesser degree "expressive"?

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Thu Nov 10, 2016 10:25 am
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Post Re: The source of creative music
I respectfully disagree...

You can't label, or pigeonhole people and their skills, creativity, expression based on their proficiency, or lack thereof. Musical, artistic or otherwise. Trying to profile and categorize things is like trying to contain infinity. That diagram looked to me like some video game attribute chart?

Blues is not technical? Guess you missed SRV, Joe Bonnamassa, Colin James, Derek Trucks. Bonnie Rait.

Steve Vai only about technique? I guess you haven't been listening, nor have you noticed the audience he has.

I suppose then that Stevie Wonder is just a pop singer/songwriter...? Think again...

What about Miles Davis? Art Tatum? J.S. Bach? L.V. Beethoven? Chopin?

Country music. Some very extreme differences between Dolly Parton and Brad Paisley, Merle Haggard and Taylor Swift, Johnny Cash and Randy Travis.

Elvis Presley, Roy Orbison. Oh, I could go on and on...

I don't know if you noticed, but literally every time the industry thinks it has music/art figured out, someone comes along and shatters all of those preconceived notions.

Just my opinion. Take it with a grain of salt, I'm not even a musician.

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Last edited by Jayesskerr on Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Thu Nov 10, 2016 11:24 am
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Post Re: The source of creative music
Some Vai...




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Post Re: The source of creative music
I would respectfully disagree. There are certainly very technical blues players and expressive rockers. We're really just talking about loose sub-genres that themselves have an infinite number of different expressions and permutations, everly evolving and being reinterpreted. And then mashed up with the Beatles White Album.

And then what do we have? Where does that fall on our Venn Diagram (except intersecting with Coolness)?

Weird Al can write some technically complex and yet expressive songs using the accordion, and sometimes, kazoos. Many, many artists skirt the edges between different genres and and yet always bring themselves, their tastes, their styles, and their habits (and their instruments for us Stick players) to each type of music that they do.

I myself write prog rock, industrial metal, and New Age piano music, and sometimes mash them all together. On Stick, I'm a prog rocker and a classical and a punk rock guy, all trying to suck less and rock it out more. I don't even know what I am yet on Stick except a newb and an enthusiast.

I've written a lot of stuff--good or bad aside--but lots of "stuff" in lots of genres with lots of different instruments. The source of my own creativity comes strictly from one source and one source only: noodling. Even when I'm just using a mouse and dropping in samples, I'm still noodling. I pull things from my ass, I accidentally do things, I try to do things I hear and remember with a shitty ear, and instead hear something cool, and lo: creative music is born. I noodle, I hear something cool, I try to repeat. Repeat until song complete.

Sink's Law of Reducing Everything to One Pithy Law states:
"The source of infinite creative music is noodles. All else is sauce." :ugeek:

But your mileage may vary!

So while I respectfully disagree with your thesis, it's a subject I love to talk about. Thank you for this discussion!

--Back to noodles...

Priest of the High Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, May He touch Us With His Noodly Appendage. RAmen.

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Thu Nov 10, 2016 2:41 pm
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Post Re: The source of creative music
The interlocking circles is the key. Some players/music cover two fields, some four, some only one. And all to different degrees. And I think this applies to aspiring players as well as the pros listed. And the diagram i'm sure is not exact just an estimate. Some players have great technique, lots of theoretical knowledge and only a touch of expression or spiritually. The diagram presented seems to be a graph of certain aspects of the creative process not a literal evaluation

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Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:44 pm
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Post Re: The source of creative music
I totally, wholeheartedly disagree.

Spirituality alone is a very personal thing, and besides who are we to judge what God has not? Y'all can go ahead, but it's pretty egotistical.

People's playing, and the creative process (Which is not limited just to the arts...) is a personal, individual thing. Trying to define this is pointless and inaccurate, and could even be hurtful.

There are so many factors that go into the "creative process". Things like environment, physical limitations, cultural, religious and ethnic background, taste and distastes, age, experience, budget, attitude etc etc


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Thu Nov 10, 2016 6:55 pm
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Post Re: The source of creative music
Well, I love Venn diagrams and I respect the attempt to chart out the music phenomenon. We don't have to agree.

So - "spirituality" - we ascribe that quality to music we hear - the first Shakti album comes to mind (A Handful of Beauty). but the term is slippery, and personal.

"Expression" - yes I think we can agree on a passage of music that is expressively played, and that may be very technical, and show a great degree of sophistication, or perhaps even be savage and non-technical.

"Theory" - how do you play "theory"? Does someone who knows a lot of theory sound like they do?

"Technique" - I guess you can hear technique, or maybe it is something we hear in music that we know well? On the other hand, for instance, gamelan music is unfamiliar to many of us, but I think we could hear the ensemble technique involved.

There are so many musical dimensions. Well, I do think there is a sweet spot in there somewhere.

Or just to speculate - 1) spirituality without technique (Rainbow Gathering jams, of which I've been to many :) 2) Technique without spirituality (U. of N. TX music school, all too often) 3) Expression without technique (the 60's as observed by Ravi Shankar) 4) Technique without expression (1st-year keyboard student), and so on.

Yes they all have to come together. Feel free to disagree, or even flame on.

R


Fri Nov 11, 2016 3:39 pm
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Post Re: The source of creative music
lol All good, I'm just disagreeing.

Not my tempo...

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Fri Nov 11, 2016 4:27 pm
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Post Re: The source of creative music
"I don't get it." -Tom Hanks, "Big"

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