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Pat Martino's "Nature of Guitar"
https://www.stickist.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4530		 Page 3 of 3
Author:  stringtapper [ Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pat Martino's "Nature of Guitar"
Love it.

On "Sacred Geometry":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=_6r2fIx2ZOo

The polychordal thing about E minor over an A chord is exactly the stuff you touch on in your videos Steve (and that Chris Crain deals with exhaustively in one of his books), something I have yet to totally map out in my head and on the fretboard.

Any thoughts on voice leading between the hands? I'm talking the kind of alternation that pianists do when they do voicings like: Dm7 1-7-3-5 to G7 1-3-7-9. Smooth motion with as many common tones between the two. Need to be able to visualize this on Stick as well as I can on piano… oh and be able to play it too. :)
Author:  Lee Vatip [ Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pat Martino's "Nature of Guitar"
This visual is actually very easy. In the melody, find the root "A" for your stated A minor chord. Just move over one string and you have an "E" note. Now play your E minor arpeggio EGB which is 5 b7 and 9 of the A minor. This geometric visual is constant for any chord (key).

SA
Author:  stringtapper [ Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pat Martino's "Nature of Guitar"
Makes sense. Go down a fourth from the root triad (one string lower) in the right hand and you fill out your 9th chord.

So then for a ii-V you could have something like

L: 1-3 / R: 5-7-9

moves to

L: 1-7 / R: 9-11-13

You only move one note(!), but there's no 3rd. Guess you have to move down a half step from the 11th and barre the 3rd and 13th together.

I gotta find time to get this stuff under the fingers as much as in the head…
Author:  Brett Bottomley [ Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pat Martino's "Nature of Guitar"
Sorry

This was an ignorant post

Brett
Author:  stringtapper [ Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pat Martino's "Nature of Guitar"
But my example *is* voice leading. You only move two notes from the ii to the V and the rest are common tones. That's smooth voice leading! :) I'm curious, Brett, if you mean something different than the conventional notion of voice leading?

When I teach part writing to my undergraduate students I always emphasize that the least amount of motion between voices gives the smoothest voice leading, so common tones should be held whenever you can. Of course that's all in the context of harmonizing a melody (Bach chorale style), so the shape of the melody ultimately dictates how the other voices will move.

I guess what I'm looking at more specifically here is comping patterns that use the best voice leading possible (least amount of motion with held common tones where possible).

And even more specifically on the Stick, as I know these patterns on piano relatively well (for a non-pianist). I just need to work out how they best lie on the Stick, because there can be issues with voice leading on Stick, especially if you're coming from a piano mindset like I talked about in this last post:

http://www.stickist.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=4214&start=30

Thanks for indulging guys! :)
Author:  Brett Bottomley [ Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pat Martino's "Nature of Guitar"
Uggh

sorry, I just didn't/don't understand your post then.

I must have gotten something different from your diagram from what you meant.

thats why this visual stuff gives me a headache, (and why I try to avoid these threads) I just can't figure out what it all means. :oops:

I have to hear it.

Sorry again
Brett
Author:  stringtapper [ Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pat Martino's "Nature of Guitar"
No need to be sorry dude. People learn/process things in different ways.

I'm sure you already got it, but for anyone else who didn't get my (understandably) confusing diagram, here it is in note names:

ii-V in Gmaj

ii — Left hand: A-C / Right hand: E-G-B

moves to

V — Left hand: D-C / Right hand: E-G-B

But with that second voicing you don't get a third so probably best to move the G down to F#, so:

V — Left hand: D-C / Right hand: E-F#-B

So the only movement is the A down a fifth to D and the G down a half step to F#, the rest are common tones.

I'm getting a lot of thins thinking from the little bit of jazz piano that I've studied, where common comping patterns for ii-V-I progressions usually keep common tones where they can. Right hand voicings that alternate between 7-3-5 and 3-7-9 patterns are very common because you only move one note between those voicings in a ii-V (key of G again):

ii --> V
7-3-5 --> 3-7-9
G-C-E --> F#-C-E

Of course these patterns can work on Stick I just don't have them under my fingers, or at least not with enough facility to move through a progression. It's amazing to me that I worked on getting my left hand working in the bass fifths for so long and now I feel like my right hand is the gimp these days. :)
Author:  Lee Vatip [ Sun Dec 18, 2011 8:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pat Martino's "Nature of Guitar"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ml_3RqcQ ... re=related

At 2:15 Pat really goes to work
Author:  Brett Bottomley [ Sun Dec 18, 2011 9:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pat Martino's "Nature of Guitar"
Nice but I love the way he plays over changes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6OhgQRN ... re=related

Brett
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