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 4 Finger 8 note scales in 4ths Tuning for Stickists 
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Post 4 Finger 8 note scales in 4ths Tuning for Stickists
I just found a Thesis on Holdsworth. The author had some insights into his playing. I'll post the link later. When any chord is playing, he translates it to the nearest minor chord, then plays any form of the esoteric minor scale to fit it. He basically only uses about 12 scales but mostly he relies on forms of the melodic minor. That sure would make following chord changes easy. Just only ever have one task. Find the nearest minor chord and play melodic minor on it's root.

He plays chords built in thirds, fourths, fifths and often tries to play a voicing with a half step in the middle voices.

He also says he can't count. That's why his music is constantly changing time signature. Patterns in the rhythm determine the time signature which he promptly ignores and plays quintuplets back and forth with straight playing. He says for most people songs are in 4/4 or 3/4 etc... For him all songs are in 1/4.

That takes care of scales, chords and rhythm... let's see what else. How about a year and a half of tools to get control of...


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Last edited by Tatsu on Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Sun Mar 02, 2014 2:28 am
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Post Re: 4 Finger 8 note scales in 4ths Tuning for Stickists
Here' the next 1/3rd.


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Sun Mar 02, 2014 2:33 am
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Post Re: 4 Finger 8 note scales in 4ths Tuning for Stickists
Here's the rest until next MONTH.


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Sun Mar 02, 2014 2:35 am
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Post Re: 4 Finger 8 note scales in 4ths Tuning for Stickists
It may be a year before I do anything with this, but thanks all the same. Into the vault, you lovely information you!


Last edited by Robstafarian on Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:17 am
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Post Re: 4 Finger 8 note scales in 4ths Tuning for Stickists
The primary scales he uses are;
Melodic Minor Add b7
Melodic (Add)#4
Melodic Add b7, b6,#11
Harmonic Minor #4
Aeolian

Mixolydian Add #7
Mixolydian Add #9
Mixolydian Add b3, Add#7
1/2 1/2 1, aka Symmetrical, aka Half-Half-Whole (Hear chords for this on my recent video in Showcase but in it's 3rd mode.)
1/2 1 1/2 1, aka Half-Whole
Whole-Tone

Ionian
Ionian Add#5
Ionian Add b3, Add b6
Harmonic Major

If there's a C Major chord playing in the key of C Major all you have to do is find the nearest minor chord which is D minor a whole step up, then play any of the minorish scales based on D; D Harmonic Minor, D Melodic Minor.

If the Major chord currently playing is the IV chord such as F then the nearest chord is E minor a half step down, so you'd play some variant of the E minor esoteric scales.

There are occasional situations when he doesn't want the minorish scales so will use Ionian Add#5, Harmonic Major or some such. So if the chord is C in the key of C, then play C or F Ionian Add #5 or some such. I've grouped all the major keys together above for your convenience.

The Mixolydian scales are used over diminished and dominant chords. As an example, you could play G Mixolydian over a G7 chord or a B diminished chord of some kind because the B diminshed chord is in the same key as the G7. Likewise, you could play B Mixolydian over a G7 chord for the same reason.

The Half Half Whole and the Half Whole Scales are considered to be Mixolydian in this condensed way of thinking about it. That's why I've grouped them with the Mixolydian scales

The other things the article mentioned was that if considering something like Melodic Add b7,b6,#11 to be "inside" playing, he only plays outside of something like that for a measure or two max. He'll play in the coming new key for a bar or two before it arrives as one way he achieves outside playing. Of course the new key is some freaky 8 note Melodic Minor scale again too though.

The chords for his stuff usually only progress either a major second or a minor third. He mostly looks for closed voicings.

One point is that Holdsworth doesn't think of chords as chords with names and an analysis. He sees the complete modal key all over the fingerboard and just grabs notes near each other in groups of 4 and then moves them by scale step if "tonal" in his sense of 8 note scales. I've shown some of the easiest ones in the diagrams.

The charts I've given ya'll have the scale climbing in four fingers CDEF on the 6th string, then move the first finger up a fifth to get GABC on the fifth string as an example (in the guitar's string numbering system).

I've also given playing these straight across the finger board with four fingers so you'd have CDEF on one string then FGAB on the other string. This creates a repeat of F.

You could enjoy that sonority or you could avoid the repeat of F by reaching to another note on the 4th string with the first finger before continuing to play the rest of the "scale" on the 5th string. That's easy for the major/minor/modal system because it's almost always the interval a 4th above except for the tritone between B and F. For esoteric melodic minor scales you have to memorize stone cold where all the notes are. Can't go on autopilot until you do that.

Another one I give has the scale crawling backwards along the finger board. Normally with three finger scales, you start on the 6th string and then ascend to the right as the scale demands but now you're going to ascend to the LEFT CDEF on the 6th string then EFGA on the 5th string.

But the point is NOT to play these as scales. It's to constantly find new ways through them so you never repeat yourself. You'll need about a 1,000 "licks" for a 2 hour set if your music involves heavy improvisation.

I've given you chords in 3rds, 4ths, and 5ths which normally would be easy in the major/minor/modal system but are a bit difficult to learn in scales unrelated to the Western system.

I intend to make another chart of non-third chords in these keys containing minor seconds on the inner voices as well.

So far I've also given you arpeggios in every position for;
Mixolydian Add b7 and Harmonic Minor #4 and diatonic intervals in these two keys (ascending 3rds, 4ths, 5ths, and 6ths).

I've also included several hints on how to work out the various esoteric pentatonics for yourselves plus a few other things on how to crawl around the keys.

You should come up with your own variations to these to completely fill out what's here into a program of jazz improvisation study.

I have a style of music I'm thinking of that I call Cold Fusion which has slow moving chords that gives the novice time to find the correct scale for the current chord and enough time to play through a few ideas within that scale before the next chord arrives in order to teach myself and others this stuff if we can ever get that far.

I'm currently studying only the Melodic Minor Add b7 and it's permutations. On sitar you'd be given a single raga for a year. I'll start with a single scale for a month and see how I do. Ask me a year later to play something for you on my new Ztar.

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Last edited by Tatsu on Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:54 pm, edited 6 times in total.

Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:47 pm
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Post Re: 4 Finger 8 note scales in 4ths Tuning for Stickists
I noticed an error in the 5ths chords of the Melodic Minor Add b5 Scale. They should all have an Eb but one of them has an E Natural. There are other errors in other places such as 5 notes on a string but they're not a critical error like C Melodic Minor not having any kind of E.

Anyway, I noticed in my previous diatribe that I forgot to say that if the G7 is playing in the key of C Major, you don't HAVE to use a mixolydian or symmetrical scale. You could play the nearest minor scale same like with major chords. In the key of C Major, the nearest minor chord to G7 is Am7 a whole step up. So you could play any kind of A harmonic or melodic minor variant based on A to play over your G7 chord.

Also, if the key were C minor, the nearest minor chord to G7 would be Fm7 (for C minor to have a G7 chord the key would have to be harmonic minor not aeolian minor which would have had a Gm7), the iv chord a whole step down. So play F melodic or harmonic minor variants to fit over the top of your G7 chord in that situation.

For B half-diminished in the key of C Major, the nearest minor chord is Am.

For B fully diminished in the key of C minor, the nearest minor chord is C minor.

Also, if the D minor ii chord is playing in the key of C, you could play the different forms of the D minor scales or you could play the esoteric mode which fits D minor's nearest minor chord which would be E min a whole step up.

If in fact there were a Gm7 chord in C (aeolian) minor, the nearest minor chord is a whole step down. And in C minor there could be an Fm7 chord whose nearest minor would be Gm7 a whole step up.

Lastly, when I prepared these charts, I remembered that psychologists said that the human brain is programmed to remember situations where there's BLOOD. Because of that the color red is important when studying difficult to remember things like this. So I put red, orange and pink on the first few positions of each item to help you along. I also remember the book said that having a lot of color also helps memory not just red. So, I took care to make big, colorful easy to read diagrams.

btw The article specifically mentioned the tunes Pud Wud, Countdown and 16 Men of Tain as containing the essence of what Holdsworth does.

Here's a little inspiration. The guitar solo comes after the bass solo. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iINA9sjORCI

Th th th th that's all folks.

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Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:23 pm
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Post Re: Addendum II
In the section for 8 Notes on 2 Strings in C Melodic Minor Add b7 there's F sharps where there should be F naturals.

There's an Ab in the first 6th interval for Melodic Minor Add b7 when there should be an A natural.

Lastly, the arpeggios are three finger arpeggios, not four finger. There's another chart in the works for that.

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Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:00 pm
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Post Re: 4 Finger 8 note scales in 4ths Tuning for Stickists
Here's the original link to the Thesis:

https://www.duo.uio.no/bitstream/handle ... sequence=2

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Thu Mar 06, 2014 7:07 pm
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Post Re: 4 Finger 8 note scales in 4ths Tuning for Stickists
Went ahead and made those Four Finger Arpeggio charts. Am putting them here. Was thinking to go ahead and make the Esoteric Pentatonic Scale too but the first esoteric pentatonic I can think of would be C Eb F G B but since this scale also has a Bb then you can use these charts and just add an F which will produce a normal minor pentatonic scale with chromatic motion between the b7 and the root C which is what you'd often do with it anyway. But also try the one with only the B natural. I'll post another variant at some point. My next project is to refinger the 5th chords/Quintals. There's a better fingering that is much easier to reach.


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Last edited by Tatsu on Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Fri Mar 07, 2014 8:48 pm
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Post Re: 4 Finger 8 note scales in 4ths Tuning for Stickists
Here's a chart with easier to reach Quintal Fingerings (Chords built up in 5ths instead of 3rds).

And another chart with normal tertian seventh chord spellings with the open voicing created by dropping the second note (the third of the chord) down: called Drop 2. I also gave you quintal chords with drop 2 open voicing.

The Non-3rd chords are not all here. There's a third group.

In any event, the open non-3rd chords often sound better with the fifth in the bass so I put those in also for the first two groups.

It's kinda hard to read the text. It says; "If not playing melody in the top voice of chords and also not playing "locked hands" (either traditional or Bill Evans/Keith Jarrett style) then Drop 2 is a better option to get the root out of the bass than putting the root on top like you do with locked hands and chord scales.

Locked hands is when there's root on top and root in bass (usually left hand piano chords) but Bill Evans used a different interval than the octave to stay locked with. His chords either had the b7 or the b6 in the lowest note of the left hand. Keith Jarret put the b6 or b7 in the bass guitar sometimes instead. Alan Holdsworth took his que from Keith and gave us "16 Men of Tain."

Remember you can play notes from the current chord as melody in the right hand.

Lastly, I'm going to be moving soon and won't have as much time to load images, videos, and comments especially because I'll be in the middle of nowhere without an internet connection. Somewhere around 2 and 4 weeks later.


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Sat Mar 08, 2014 2:42 am
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