Thanks for sharing Marty - I like that process you outlined. It's working for you for sure!
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| Learning songs or learning how to improvise? https://www.stickist.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=7463 |
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| Author: | greg [ Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Learning songs or learning how to improvise? |
Kataway wrote: Great answers from all of you...thank you. On piano (some of you who touched this I'm sure) when you practice scales, there are different fingerings on each hand...how to switch your thumb for example, etc. So...another question...lol. Did you try to do the same on the Stick...a major scale with both hands and not a reverse movement in the LH...no...normal "going up" scale? Up in the sense of a normal ascending scale. Because in the LH after the tonic you have to go 3 frets down (and another string...towards you let's say) to reach the 3rd...while in the RH you go 1 fret down and a string lower. And playing it together is a nice brain job...lol. When I'm playing unison or counterpoint, I try to use the same fingering reflexes in the left hand that I'm using in the right. The best example of this on video I have is the Mozart K1: [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvYYVCBn1Lk[/youtube] I do use the pinky on occasion in the left hand, but never in sequence with 3rd finger and when the part is a fast-moving harmony part in the same rhythm with the melody, (around 1:11) I try to use the same fingering, shifting strings together, three notes per string as in the melody. It's really good to practice both ways of fingering scales in the left hand, 3 notes/string or 4 notes per string. One thing I like about 3-fingered scales in the right hand is that they are always "fingered" the same, regardless of the key. This is analogous to the way pianists use the thumb-index-middle pattern to shift the hand's position as you go up or down the scale, but instead of shifting the position, we just shift the string. That's my answer, as a reformed pianist, to your question... |
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| Author: | Per Boysen [ Thu Mar 06, 2014 1:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Learning songs or learning how to improvise? |
I do about fifty-fifty composed music and music I make up right on the spot. I can't see how you could learn one approach without also learning the other approach, each one is fundamental for the other! And I don't think there really exists such a thing as "unstructured music" because even if you play totally random notes there will always be some kind of evolution, "a story being told" in the sounds that come out of you and a really good practice is to train one's ears and imagination to be able to hear and express the full spectrum. For an example, just take a look at blues; very little of what blues communicates has to do with the melody or harmonisation but nevertheless the music is rich and powerful - so what's all that hidden stuff that brings life? Listen to "the sounds behind the music" and invent your own names for what you discover, then use this as your own toolbox to make music that is truly deep. |
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| Author: | h3dg3h0g [ Thu Mar 06, 2014 2:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Learning songs or learning how to improvise? |
Beautifully stated. Best Thread Ever (tm). Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | earthgene [ Thu Mar 06, 2014 5:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Learning songs or learning how to improvise? |
Agreed - a fun thread. Having some structure in place will allow you to deep dive into other aspects of your music that want to explore. The music itself can unstructured, I am only referring to the process by which it is attained. This will boil down to what's important to learn right now tempered with, "what do I feel like playing?". One could simply play the first that comes to mind, free jazz, spaz jazz, punk jazz - some might not call that music, but if that's what you feel - play it. I can only speak from my experience that having a plan in place has allowed me to get some quick wins, which is just enough to keep me motivated, inspired and excited to try new forms, techniques and ideas. |
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| Author: | carvingcode [ Thu Mar 06, 2014 7:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Learning songs or learning how to improvise? |
Gene - Great advice. Understood. Implementation phase in place. BTW: Shouldn't this week's threads be archived in the "Best of..." section? Randy |
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| Author: | Marty6126 [ Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Learning songs or learning how to improvise? |
The bulk of my practice is freeform noodling over simple chord changes. It sounds great and it's lots of fun -- but, I'm not sure its the best way to progress. While improvising over chord changes is fun, and there is something to learn by it, I think it is very easy this way to cast bad habits in stone. I think I would progress faster if I took a more structured approach and worked on some more difficult arrangements --- but that's hard work, so I don't do it much. But here's what I do. I try to work on songs that I find difficult -- rather than just playing the ones that come easy. Also, I listen carefully as I play and try to catch and correct weak spots. And finally, I record myself frequently and then listen to it critically to see where I need improvement. |
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| Author: | earthgene [ Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Learning songs or learning how to improvise? |
Thanks for sharing Marty - I like that process you outlined. It's working for you for sure!
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| Author: | greg [ Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Learning songs or learning how to improvise? |
Marty6126 wrote: The bulk of my practice is freeform noodling over simple chord changes. It sounds great and it's lots of fun -- but, I'm not sure its the best way to progress. While improvising over chord changes is fun, and there is something to learn by it, I think it is very easy this way to cast bad habits in stone. Don't chide yourself, this can be a great way to practice, IF you add one more element: singing. I don't mean singing a separate part, but singing the line you re playing while you solo. If you lead with your voice, and don't just follow what your hand is doing, this will turn it from "noodling" into guided improvisation, with your head in charge. Your phrasing will become much more interesting and communicative. How do you know whether you're just following your hand or not? Begin the process by first singing the phrase, then play it and sing it together. Don't forget to include repeated notes and larger intervals, this will help you get out of the sense of "noodling" and into the zone of "improvising" Another thing you can do is to experiment with what you're doing in the left hand. just play root bass notes, then play root-5 patterns, etc. Have fun! |
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