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 Why Americans don't like Jazz... 
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Post Re: Why Americans don't like Jazz...
That was a kick-ass video Stickrad! Especially the comments.

The article ( I actually read it all the way through), should have been entitled "Why don't MORE Americans like jazz?". IMO there are probably as large a percentage of the population who listen and enjoy this genre today as there was 40 or 80 years ago. Having said that, the jazz back then has evolved and now covers such a wide area of the music spectrum that in places it's hard to put a defining line saying, "That there be Jazz, an that ain't". Have a look at some of Frank Zappa an Jeff Beck's stuff, most people would hardly call them 'jazz musicians'. This then begs the question that "Are more people listning to jazz without realising it?". And WTF IS 'JAZZ' anyway? (Please send answers in on the back of a $100 note).
Popular music has always been 'popular', that's why it's called that! Yes most of it is cookie cutter-jump on the bandwagon stuff, but that's what sells and like it or not that's what has always made the music industry run, and has done since the year dot!.
Put enough money behind any act and it'll be a hit (see Milli Vanilli). That does not make the music 'less than' or 'not worth consideration', have a gander at Dave Tiptons arrangement and rendition of 'Wrecking Ball' for starters. Miley Cyrus had to swing naked on a ball and chain to sell it, Dave accomplished a masterpiece through musicianship and talent.

Finally I have to agree with Karma
Quote:
All art (music, visual, etc.) is completely subjective and personal, with every human being equal. Anything that says "so and so" is lazy or somehow wrong or ignorant because they don't appreciate the same art that I appreciate is complete elitist bulls##t.

Karma


Now back to our regular programming!

Cheers,
Eric

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Mon May 12, 2014 11:39 pm
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Post Re: Why Americans don't like Jazz...
Cab Calloway called Dizzy Gillespie "Chinese music". i was having a "what's the point" moment the other day thinking, Frank Zappa released over 60 albums in his lifetime, and no one knows who he is. everyone in the world knows Coca cola, and it's water and sugar. George Duke never sang until F.Z. made him. all this means nothing. i grew up listening to church choirs, Happy Bernie's Polka Party, Hungarian Melody Time, Mario Lanza's Christmas album, Beach Boys, Four Seasons. Beatles. when i heard "Pet Sounds" my life changed. then Jimi, Sly, FZ. i heard "Eric Dolphy Memorial Barbeque" and said, i gotta check out who inspired THIS. but my first rock band covered Black Sabbath, Mountain, Deep Purple, and Yes. (i played "The Fish") i wanted to play music (any music), and my parents said, "Fine, you'll take lessons." my high school band director turned me on to Don Ellis. i really love Bjork. she makes my girlfriend run out of the room screaming. i told my drummer buddy that Little Feet are what the Eagles would sound like if they didn't suck. the first time i saw a Jackson Pollack i knew i liked it and i had no idea why. now i know. my local all-jazz station, barely played any Joe Zawinul the day he died. ill stop now.

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Tue May 13, 2014 1:53 am
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Post Re: Why Americans don't like Jazz...
Here's another experience.
I am the producer of our local Long Beach Jazz Festival. We are about to present our twelfth consecutive successful four day event.
It is not a jazz community by any stretch. But the coolest comments I hear from exiting audience members are
"I didn't know this music existed. And now I'm a fan"
I present quality players in a friendly environment with no cover charge. The connection of listener and musician is an explosive discovery on all fronts.
In promo material I never ask the populace to "come support the arts". Alternatively I say "come have a great time "
They do.
Steve A


Tue May 13, 2014 5:45 am
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Post Re: Why Americans don't like Jazz...
The problem statement seems to be: Government is not funding the education of people to understand high (abstract) art.

I think the problem statement ought to be: The American culture has changed from one where people challenge their understanding and grow to one where people seek comfort in their current level of understanding.

To understand Jazz, or Prog Rock, or abstract art, etc. requires the audience to seek beyond themselves, to observe something that challenges the mind and the soul.

Who is willing to do this? The person who cannot stop documenting everything on their smartphone, uploading to facebook or twitter? The person who only watches the commentator they agree with on TV news? The person who will never travel more than 3 counties away from where they live? No.

It requires people willing to seek out new input. People willing to accept that they don't know everything they need to fulfill their life. People who accept that there is value beyond their current understanding. This is what we need to teach our children. If we endow our children with a spirit of exploration, discovery, and challenge, they will find ways to learn the rest.

We live in a world where knowledge is literally at our fingertips. I found the most music I love because when I first got iTunes, I found Aural Moon. Then I found that a ProgDay festival had been happening once a year less than 60 miles from my house. From here I found out about the Chapman Stick.

From rumors I heard about an offshoot of Jethro Tull called Wild Turkey, I found Glenn Cornick on-line (JT bassist), e-mailed back and forth with him, and found out where to get some of those albums.

The digital era allows us the ability to find whatever we need to find and share anything we think is valuable to share. It is our responsibility to do both.

Take that, rant-competition!

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Tue May 13, 2014 6:45 am
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Post Re: Why Americans don't like Jazz...
I wrote a long post here yesterday, but decided then to cancel it.

Long story short, a) not only Americans don't listen to jazz a lot, it applies to europeans as well b) I think "jazz" in sence of "experimental music beyond standards and involving improvisation" was never that popular, as pop music. When people say that jazz was popular in the old days, they usually refer to Frank Sinatra songs and other easy-listening standarts that almost are as much clicheed as more recent pop songs about love and stuff. They don't usually refer to Coltrane or Davis (and these are quite famous guys, right?), and even if they do, they think about the most popular stuff that became standards.

Frankly, I don't even think of all these "Autumn Leaves" covers as of jazz, when the performer carefully "noodles around" according to a textbook guidelines rather than to his ear's suggestions. I do like the so called "jazz standarts", I enjoy "Fly me to the Moon" and "The girl from Ipanema", but hey, these are your typical pop songs. For me jazz is about experimenting, and the word "standard" is an antonym to the word "experimental".

I used to rant about that "the popular music is too mainstream", but that is why it is mainstream in the first place. So I no longer expect the local jazz radio station to play Zorn's "Perfume of a Critic's Burning Flesh", I'm okay with it playing Hiromi Uehara and Joe Zawinul - still better than Eminem and Miley Cirrus. And why should I care so much about what others want to listen to? I'm okay as far as I can listen to what I love.

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Tue May 13, 2014 8:59 am
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Post Re: Why Americans don't like Jazz...
I think the jazz as we know it is timestamped for a culture from the early 1900s. It's spirit of improvisation and experimentation is universal and lives on in different forms. maybe at this time improvisation has shifted from harmony and melody to timbres and devices. There is huge experimentation in electronic music that I think it's of the same progressive mindset as bebop or prog rock that many of us treasure. But I think complexity, whether it is in altered chords of bop, odd time sigs of prog rock or glitchy beats and edits is rarely the domain of the mainstream. Even when it is for a short time, most listeners get there interest from something visceral in the music rather than cerebral.

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Fri May 16, 2014 12:03 pm
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Post Re: Why Americans don't like Jazz...
Sorry lots of typos there :)

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Fri May 16, 2014 3:01 pm
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Post Re: Why Americans don't like Jazz...
I don't think "not liking" jazz is a particularly American phenomenon. People all over the world don't like jazz!.. That's okay.

Most people like tunes they can remember, and sing along with, or dance to. In the 1920s,30s and 40s jazz was a popular music for dancing in America, then bebop happened..

Except for traditional swing and Latin varieties, jazz has become exclusively a "listening music", and as such it sits high on the totem pole, but low in popularity as a social lubricant.

Steve's point about people having a good time is a great example of a dichotomy that occurs in all musical genres it seems (almost). That is the divergence between entertainment music and art music. Entertainment music is always going to be more popular than art music, whether that is in classical ("pops" vs Stravinski), rock (everybody else vs prog).

Can you think of any examples of "art country"?, or has it managed to develop exclusively in the popular entertainment world (not trying to be a snob here, just curious if you think this is the case)

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Sat May 17, 2014 5:16 am
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Post Re: Why Americans don't like Jazz...
Jazz was at his early beginnings a way for slaves to have fun and dance on Saturdays nights. And after few décades it became a music for improvisations and also a music where different paths started. Free jazz is complicated and hard to listen to while a crooner with soft jazz song will be listen by many people. It really depends on what kind of jazz are we talking about. Mahavishnu Orchestra? Duke Ellington? Big Bands era? Billie Holliday? Charlie Parker and his bebop? Miles Davis and his funk? And many more in different jazz styles. It is a too much general statement to say that "americans" don't like jazz. Some loves it, some don't. Jazz has a public like classical music has its own public. It's the same for rap, pop, country, etc.

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Sat May 17, 2014 5:49 am
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Post Re: Why Americans don't like Jazz...
Lots of great insights here into the current state of music.

Many of us have bought into the consumer world and the busy busy lifestyle to the point where we perceive that we don't have the time or the energy (or anymore room in our brain) to sit down and actually listen to music as people did in musics heyday.

The music "business" must keep on, so music is now background filler everywhere and to everything. I love music, I have a very well tuned ear and I have played music for a long time but there are so many more moments now that I actively crave silence and especially no music bubbling underneath anything.

People think I'm crazy when I intently listen to music or when I complain that Kylie Minogue has a thin, tuneless voice (but she's a SINGER for chrissake!). I find this bizarre - music is EVERWHERE ALL THE TIME and yet I'm mad for actually LISTENING to it or having an educated opinion about it :lol:

Just my three cents,

Tim


Sun May 18, 2014 1:00 am
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