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Why Americans don't like Jazz...
https://www.stickist.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=7837		 Page 2 of 5
Author:  AndyJPro [ Mon May 12, 2014 3:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why Americans don't like Jazz...
h3dg3h0g wrote:
Luc, you raise a great point. I think that's a symptom as well as a cause of the "problem." Where is the "modern Jazz ecosystem"? Where is the innovative Jazz happening? I am not being facetious - I really want to know.

For all the crap on rock radio, there is plenty of innovation in that genre. Much of it is quite challenging and edifying to listen to.

And I don't think many Americans listen to that either. :ugeek:



I know many people that blame the academizing of jazz music for this phenomenon. When rules become more important than the creativity they are meant to inspire.
I'd like to add I'm far from competent in speaking about this topic.
Author:  Nomad Monday [ Mon May 12, 2014 3:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why Americans don't like Jazz...
Yes, good thought, Luc. I have the same thoughts, but was hesitant to delve too deeply into it. Just as background, I would also say I'm a qualified jazz listener. I played piano in my high school and college jazz bands, I go to jazz shows every now and then, and I listen to the local jazz station on the radio. I'm fortunate to live in the San Francisco bay area, our local jazz station has one of the largest libraries in the world. I do hear some very interesting and innovative tunes on there, but I would say the vast majority of the time I feel like I'm listening to one of hundreds of versions of the same jazz standards. And sometimes, I find myself listening to a soloist and feeling like they're not really playing a solo, but just kind of noodling around. Honestly, this is what bores me about jazz. And I wouldn't say that it's because I'm uncultured and my ear isn't attuned (though that opinion is obviously biased), but I feel like a lot of jazz has become a tired and conservative medium.
Author:  gpoorman [ Mon May 12, 2014 3:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why Americans don't like Jazz...
h3dg3h0g wrote:
And I don't think many Americans listen to that either. :ugeek:

Certainly. That's why the title of the article is a little unfortunate as it's more of a commentary on the way people listen to music than it is on jazz per se.

Art takes some effort on both sides and I think we've gone through phases where people were willing put that effort in and other phases where they weren't. Certainly most people are ignorant of the lush history and process of music making. That's not meant as an insult (even though it's always taken that way). We're all ignorant in areas where we haven't put in the effort to learn. But it doesn't help that we live in an age now where, in all matters, "my ignorance is just as good as yours" and we're programmed to look at someone who appears more educated with scorn.
Author:  Luc [ Mon May 12, 2014 4:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why Americans don't like Jazz...
gpoorman wrote:
Certainly most people are ignorant of the lush history and process of music making.

And it's always been that way. Can you imagine being a court musician for a 9th century king? Your creativity was probably not needed 99.9% of the time.
Your comment about ignorance was spot on. Any Rand was never more correct in some of her prose than right now.
Author:  Lee Vatip [ Mon May 12, 2014 7:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why Americans don't like Jazz...
Let's not forget that jazz was once popular music in America. Benny Goodman, Duke, Count and all were pop stars. Jazz then stepped back as 50's rock'n'roll appeared. Compounding this, jazz writing became more cerebral and lost much of its listenership as a result.most folks need music to be fun and effortless. Creative music does not fulfill this need.
That being said, I'm in the process of recording a jazz CD.
America needs a little Chapman Stick jazz.
Steve Adelson
Author:  Maynard [ Mon May 12, 2014 7:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why Americans don't like Jazz...
It doesn't seem wrong to say it's all furniture music: just whether furniture for sitting, standing? dancing?; for a meal with friends, or for a meal with a spouse?; for church pews, graveyard benches, rope swings?; or for the rooms inside a mind...

...yes, I think it's all just furniture - which means Americans have blandish taste in decor.


All to the Best.
Author:  AndyJPro [ Mon May 12, 2014 7:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why Americans don't like Jazz...
Lee Vatip wrote:
Let's not forget that jazz was once popular music in America. Benny Goodman, Duke, Count and all were pop stars. Jazz then stepped back as 50's rock'n'roll appeared. Compounding this, jazz writing became more cerebral and lost much of its listenership as a result.most folks need music to be fun and effortless.
Steve Adelson


This is a good point. Early Rock and/or Roll was very simple and people didn't have to think about it. Not unlike pop music. I mean, those I-IV-V progressions came from somewhere.

It's also possible that it isn't the population has changed, it's the accessibility has changed. I mean, before recording when you would only hear an ensemble a few times out of the year (if even), you want them to be "good" but you don't really have a sense of what "good" is, so you take it on faith that someone more knowledgeable (a musician) can tell you what's good and what isn't. Applicable to jazz or classical.
But now there's so much out there, so you rely on radio and other more understood forms of media to inform you as to what you want. (Que American Idol & Simon Cowell).
Not to mention, you don't have to know anything about music to hear it whenever you want to anymore. (I knew there was a reason there are so many crappy electronic organs and 1 million pound upright pianos hanging around classified sections).

There's definitely been a transition period in the 20th century as to how art is perceived, appreciated and made. Only question is (I guess not the only question), will it settle and slow down in the coming decades?

I'd like to point out again, I'm hardly an authority. Pick this apart and destroy it if you disagree. My 21 years on the Earth have only allotted so much time for thinking about things that came before me (or so they tell me. As far as I know, it's made up and never happened).
Author:  rclere [ Mon May 12, 2014 8:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why Americans don't like Jazz...
The truth is…. the Japanese and the Europeans are WAY MORE supportive of jazz . I have touring musician friends who tour Japan and Europe because they are far more cultured and articulate to what jazz is…. it is far from questionable :geek:
Author:  Stickrad [ Mon May 12, 2014 8:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why Americans don't like Jazz...
I think people have forgotten that jazz or abstract music has always belonged to small communities world wide. Even the famous jazz clubs in New York were only some half dozen in number, yes?!

I wouldn't say that Wynton Marsalis has tried to invigorate jazz, he's succeeded for decades to do this.

Lazy ears have become a problem though, largely due to the fact that people don't listen to music, they watch videos. "Have you seen the latest Eminem song" for example.

I've made this point known to my students lately, because coincidently after listening to a lot to Wynton Marsalis' Black Codes from the Underground, I realised that my listening was suffering from watching too much music and that I needed to deepen my listening skills. I pride myself on having a very deep listening facility if you will.
Author:  Stickrad [ Mon May 12, 2014 8:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Why Americans don't like Jazz...
This is knockout if you haven't already checked it out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLYogj8QpHA
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