It is currently Wed Apr 24, 2024 6:09 pm




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 52 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
 Improv over single chord 
Author Message
Site Donor
Site Donor

Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:50 am
Posts: 882
Post Re: Improv over single chord
You can explain it right or wrong, complex theory or simple explanation, even through some humor in. But the feeling of the piece is what makes it really work and what BassV really did is something outside of logic or theory. Even if you wrote it note for note and another musician
played it, the music would sound different. Perhaps that is part of the magic of improvisation. But, interesting enough, to my ears I could hear a signature
sound and feel that harkened back, back to the "Backyard" 8-)...

Very nice, would love to see a video.

jRj

_________________
Dreams are set to blossom courage.

http://jrjwhatifthepaintingshadsongs.tumblr.com/


Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:12 pm
Profile
Multiple Donor
Multiple Donor
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:59 am
Posts: 2593
Location: Maine
Post Re: Improv over single chord
earthgene wrote:
It's a great piece BasV. Maybe it could be the first part of a trilogy?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgViOqGJEvM[/youtube]

One of the best movies of all time.

_________________
Luc Bergeron
#R6453 Railboard
http://www.LucBergeronMusic.com
http://www.facebook.com/LucBergeronMusic


Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:29 pm
Profile My Photo Gallery
Artisan Contributor
Artisan Contributor
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2008 11:20 am
Posts: 510
Location: The Netherlands
Post Re: Improv over single chord
Thanks for the comments once again :-))
If it weren't for Steve, I wouldn't even have known about a thing called add9 (I attended the workshop in Karlsbad in 2010 where I learned about it).
Killer video :-). And now I know where the quote 'saddest of all key's come from !! Stu Hamm mentions it in one of his TrueFire courses, but I didn't have a clue where he was referring to, love it !!
A trilogy, who knows...the title for the piece....probably more appropriate HAHA
A video..wow...i'm a shy guy and it already took some courage for me to post an audio recording, but hey, it's a goal to work towards to for me.

Cheers,
Bas


Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:33 pm
Profile
Multiple Donor
Multiple Donor
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 3:07 pm
Posts: 7088
Location: Charlottesville, Virginia, USA
Post Re: Improv over single chord
As anyone who has ever talked with me about chords knows, I'm no theory expert, but here's how I would explain it. To me, there is a definite difference between a sus2 and an add9, as revealed by what else is happening in the music at that moment (does the melody play the 3rd, for example). Looking at each hand in isolation is useful for building larger harmonic structures, but each hand's individual voicing is sometimes only a part of the whole

So referenced to C a sus2 would be, C-D-G with no 3rd (I use this kind of chord shape all the time love it). If playing an inversion of that shape (D-G-C for example, a melody side triple stop) it's still a sus2 because there is no 3rd. "sus" because the presence of an adjacent tone together with the absence of the 3rd creates tension, the tonality is also ambiguous because the chord is neither major nor minor.

The chord we often call an add9 on the bass side of The Stick (C-G-D all at the same fret) could actually be called a sus2, since the 3rd isn't played, but if the 3rd is played somewhere else, then the point is moot. The chord is the sum of its parts, regardless of which hand is playing the notes at any given moment.

A CMaj(add9) would be C E G D. A C9 means you play a dominant 7th as well, so C E G Bb D.

Because we can usually only voice three or four notes in each hand, sometimes we have to leave notes out of chords. The least important is always the 5th, unless it's a flat 5. If the music calls for no 3rd, that's an important omission, so we should be careful to not play a 3rd in that situation, especially if we are improvising over that chord. So when you see sus4 or sus2, make sure you aren't playing the 3rd elsewhere.

My 3 cents (lousy dollar)

_________________
Happy tapping, greg
Schedule an online Stick lesson


Last edited by greg on Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:48 pm
Profile My Photo Gallery
Post Re: Improv over single chord
greg wrote:
To me, the 2nd creates a very different sound than the 9th, so I like having a way to differentiate between them.


Yeah same here. A Dadd2 sounds more like a D/E when played on a guitar or a piano (or a Stick) than a Dadd9 in my ears. More narrow intervals in the lower frequencies. Or how to describe it.... I personally don´t like the sound of a Dadd2 with D in the bass most of the time. Dadd9 sounds GREAT in my ears and so does a D/E chord. :)

Personal opinions of course. But who am I to say? My favorite bass players are Sid Vicious and Gene Simmons.


Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:37 pm
Elite Contributor
Elite Contributor
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:02 am
Posts: 2586
Location: Shawinigan, Quebec, Canada
Post Re: Improv over single chord
Lee Vatip wrote:
It's grammar. Traditionaly add 9 is the most used for 1 3 5 9. If someone writes. 2 instead we know what they mean. Dadd9. And Dadd 2 is the same thing. Sus is usually used when raising the 3rd to the 4th. Semantics.
Steve A


You're right...it's the most simple way to explain it...great!

_________________
Grand Stick, Wenge, 12 strings, MR, SN 6667
http://soundcloud.com/Kataway
http://www.youtube.com/user/Shawinijazz
https://alainauclair.bandcamp.com/


Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:27 am
Profile My Photo Gallery
Post Re: Improv over single chord
Tatsu wrote:
Don't think so but O.K. you think so. Care to back up that statement?


Ok. Time to back up my statement. D7 includes the 7th note exept the root, fifth and 3rd. A D9 includes the 7th and the 9th note. A D13 includes the 7th, 9th, 11th (sus) and so on... When you write Dadd9 you add the 9th note but not the 7th..... That is what the "add" means.


Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:47 am
Member
Member

Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:20 pm
Posts: 31
Post Re: Improv over single chord
Jan Hellman wrote:
Tatsu wrote:
Don't think so but O.K. you think so. Care to back up that statement?


Ok. Time to back up my statement. D7 includes the 7th note exept the root, fifth and 3rd. A D9 includes the 7th and the 9th note. A D13 includes the 7th, 9th, 11th (sus) and so on... When you write Dadd9 you add the 9th note but not the 7th..... That is what the "add" means.


FWIW, that's pretty much how I see it too. A nice succinct explanation. However, the pedant in me feels obliged to point out that you mean the dominant 7th, not the 7th from the major scale, don't you? :-)

Norman


Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:04 am
Profile
Master Contributor
Master Contributor
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2009 4:09 pm
Posts: 1016
Location: Erie, Pa
Post Re: Improv over single chord
greg wrote:

Because we can usually only voice three or four notes in each hand, sometimes we have to leave notes out of chords. The least important is always the 5th, unless it's a flat 5. If the music calls for no 3rd, that's an important omission, so we should be careful to not play a 3rd in that situation, especially if we are improvising over that chord. So when you see sus4 or sus2, make sure you aren't playing the 3rd elsewhere.

My 3 cents (lousy dollar)


I have often swat(past tense of sweat) over which note to leave out of the chord when trying to represent a "7" chord with the right hand on the melody side of the Stick. Mostly I would agree the 3rd is more important when defining a chord. But when I play a Maj 7 chord I tend to enjoy how the 5th and 7th sound together rather than the major 3rd and 7th. Unless you were trying to represent a MinMaj7 chord, which I don't think I ever have intentionally. So in this case I would say the 5th is more important than the 3rd, to me.

Still, great job Bas V, on the performance. I am equally shy of posting a recording. If you make a mistake live, people forget about it. On a recording it lasts forever. And I am unfortunately not focussed enough to play something over and over again to get a great take.

Mike

_________________
Midway upon the journey of our life
I found myself within a forest dark,
For the straightforward pathway had been lost. --Dante(translated by Henry W. Longfellow)


Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:11 am
Profile My Photo Gallery
Post Re: Improv over single chord
thebigdipper wrote:
Jan Hellman wrote:
Tatsu wrote:
Don't think so but O.K. you think so. Care to back up that statement?


Ok. Time to back up my statement. D7 includes the 7th note exept the root, fifth and 3rd. A D9 includes the 7th and the 9th note. A D13 includes the 7th, 9th, 11th (sus) and so on... When you write Dadd9 you add the 9th note but not the 7th..... That is what the "add" means.


FWIW, that's pretty much how I see it too. A nice succinct explanation. However, the pedant in me feels obliged to point out that you mean the dominant 7th, not the 7th from the major scale, don't you? :-)

Norman


Oh yes indeed. That is exactly what I mean. Thank you for clearing that out. :) But i MIGHT have written Dmaj7 or Dmaj9 if I had meant the 7th note in the scale and not the dominant 7 since that is the proper name for THAT chord..... ;) :lol:

//J ;)


Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:39 pm
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 52 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 65 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

board3 Portal - based on phpBB3 Portal Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group. Designed by Vjacheslav Trushkin for Free Forums/DivisionCore.
Heavily modified by Stickist.com. Stickist.com is an authorized Chapman Stick® site. The Chapman Stick® and NS/Stick™ and their marks are federally registered trademarks exclusively licensed to Stick Enterprises, Inc., and are used on Stickist.com and NSstickist.com with SEI's permission.
Click here for more information.