If you look at POPULAR artist and who the majority of people like and support today, and will probably have their small spot in music history, then I think you have to agree the "music business" today has little to do with being technically "the best." I'd argue that Lady Gaga is NOT technically the "best" singer for example, but she's sure a big star and she's a lot of people's "favorite singer!" No argument there. BB King is a honest to god living LEGEND but do you think he has more guitar "chops" than most of the rock, jazz and progressive music guitarist out there today? I don't think so. In Mozarts case it's STILL a popularity contest (When it comes to entertainment, and that's all music really is, it's always a popularity contest.) but at least he has measurable criteria on which he can be judged. As a "musician" he could be judged on his abilty to WRITE & chart music for one. (Does he know how to read and write musical charts?) He wrote music that demanded proficiency from the musicians that play it. He actually gave the world new ideas musically, he didn't just ride the popular wave and rehash what's already been done like TOO many rock stars of today do. He wasn't JUST a fad. But yes ... even with Mozart it still comes down to popularity because if he wasn't popular his music would have been lost in time. So again, my point and honesy "feeling" is that when you use the word BEST as in BEST DRUMMER, BEST SINGER or BEST STICK PLAYER it's not the way most people answer the question, not really. What they really are answering is the question "who do you LIKE the most." Which drummer do you like most, which singer, which Stick player? We're probably debating WORDS but for me BEST needs a measurable criteria to be judged.
Anyway regardless if we agree of disagree this has been an enjoyable discussion!
I totally buy it and agree. This forces us to accept the following conclusion - There is no such thing as good or bad art, only art that you like or dislike.
This means that the painting in the art museum with one solid stripe down the middle is as much "art" as is the paint splattered one next to it or the Van Gogh down the hall.
The like/dislike conclusion, for me, keeps art free for me to make my own conclusions. And for that right, I must afford someone else the same freedom to choose for themselves, even if it means accepting as legitimate something that I don't like.
That;s kind of the way I look at it. And trust me ... there are tons of musicians and artists I DON'T LIKE! And many of them are rich and famous. And on the other side of the coin there are tons I admire who the general public won't give the time of day too. And the beat rolls on.
BTW in regard to drummers, I'm a big Bill Bruford and Carl Palmer fan. (I'm a huge 70s and 80s prog rock fan)
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 7:45 pm Posts: 758 Location: Detroit, MI
Re: Best Drummer?
Maurice Ravel once wrote:
Quote:
I am sometimes credited with opinions which appear very paradoxical concerning the falsity of art and the dangers of sincerity. The fact is I refuse simply and absolutely to confound the conscience of an artist, which is one thing, with his sincerity, which is another. Sincerity is of no value unless one's conscience helps make it apparent. This conscience compels us to turn ourselves into good craftsmen. My objective, therefore, is technical perfection. I can strive unceasingly to this end, since I am certain of never being able to attain it. The important thing is to get nearer to it all the time. Art, no doubt, has other effects, but the artist, in my opinion, should have no other aim.
This suggests a separation of the music from the musician. Surely there are recordings in my collection made by people with little skill that I love. Just as I've heard recordings by people with considerable music skill that I thought were awful. This reality, however, should never be a reason to stop trying to get better. Too often I've heard the argument that "I don't want to learn any of that shit cuz it'll kill my creativity man". This is hogwash and likely means you weren't too creative to begin with.
I can buy the argument to a degree that it's all good but I have always felt that a special place needs to be saved for those that have considerable creative abilities, considerable technical abilities, and the encyclopedic knowledge of all things music. You know ... the Mozarts, the Ravels, the Gershwins etc. Of course these people worked in a time when those qualities were prized and honestly I don't believe that's the case today.
Last edited by gpoorman on Thu Jan 19, 2012 7:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
Thu Jan 19, 2012 7:22 am
locks
Contributor
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 8:33 pm Posts: 200 Location: Portugal
Re: Best Drummer?
greg wrote:
This thread is an excellent opportunity to turn people on to great drumming, so I'll use it as such.
Whatever you think of the Dave Matthews Band's music, it is undeniable that Carter Beauford is one of the best drummers ever to hit popular music. Check out the album, Before These Crowded Streets, unbelievable groove, tone and punctuation. I've played with Carter several times, and he's so good, it's like you can't go wrong.
And as a composer on drums, Bob Moses is spectacular.
I've heard DMB even has Stick in some of their songs Carter is indeed one of the most impressive drummers I've seen, the dream of any bassist!
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 8:01 am Posts: 912 Location: North Haven, Connecticut USA
Re: Best Drummer?
THE drummer for me has always been Bill Bruford. I remember being 8 years old and hearing "fragile" by yes, and being blown away. Very few musicians in my life have had the impact on me that Mr. Bruford has (as a listener, I only met him once). With that said, he is just one of MANY which I LOVE. I mean how can you not have a slew of percussionist who you love?
In fact the one instrument I'm glad that I don't gig on is the drums. If I played the drums, then I wouldn't have the joy of locking in with a good drummer. Lets face it THAT is one of the best parts of making music. (not locking in with a bad drummer would be one of the worst)
Brett
Thu Jan 19, 2012 7:47 am
thewildest
Contributor
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 6:23 pm Posts: 156 Location: Montreal
Re: Best Drummer?
88persuader wrote:
If you look at POPULAR artist and who the majority of people like and support today, and will probably have their small spot in music history, then I think you have to agree the "music business" today has little to do with being technically "the best." I'd argue that Lady Gaga is NOT technically the "best" singer for example, but she's sure a big star and she's a lot of people's "favorite singer!" No argument there. BB King is a honest to god living LEGEND but do you think he has more guitar "chops" than most of the rock, jazz and progressive music guitarist out there today? I don't think so. In Mozarts case it's STILL a popularity contest (When it comes to entertainment, and that's all music really is, it's always a popularity contest.) but at least he has measurable criteria on which he can be judged. As a "musician" he could be judged on his abilty to WRITE & chart music for one. (Does he know how to read and write musical charts?) He wrote music that demanded proficiency from the musicians that play it. He actually gave the world new ideas musically, he didn't just ride the popular wave and rehash what's already been done like TOO many rock stars of today do. He wasn't JUST a fad. But yes ... even with Mozart it still comes down to popularity because if he wasn't popular his music would have been lost in time. So again, my point and honesy "feeling" is that when you use the word BEST as in BEST DRUMMER, BEST SINGER or BEST STICK PLAYER it's not the way most people answer the question, not really. What they really are answering is the question "who do you LIKE the most." Which drummer do you like most, which singer, which Stick player? We're probably debating WORDS but for me BEST needs a measurable criteria to be judged.
Anyway regardless if we agree of disagree this has been an enjoyable discussion!
Interesting.... I was going to keep the funny branch of this thread by proposing a Boss DR-880 as the best drummer, as it is always on time, fits in the bag and above all, it has a volume know.... but this part of the exchange got to another place.
While I understand the sometimes overlapping qualifications between virtuosity and popularity which may spark the dialog about how politically correct would be to label someone/something as "the best", sometimes you get a perfect 10, like in the case of someone such as Jaco Pastorius, who in my opinion and that of most people that have seriously listened to his legacy, has been, it is and will be the best bass player of all times.... sometimes the argument is so strong, excellence is so overwhelming, that individual taste and opinions are overwritten by undisputed awesomeness...
While Bruford and Horacio "el Negro" Hernandez have very innovative approaches to the instrument, I believe the Jaco Pastorius of drums is still to be revealed.
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 8:01 am Posts: 912 Location: North Haven, Connecticut USA
Re: Best Drummer?
Jaco played drums doesn't that make him the JACO OF THE DRUMS?
I'm just sayin'
Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:02 pm
randy
Multiple Donor
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 6:28 am Posts: 157
Re: Best Drummer?
I'm a rock & roll guy so I vote for:
Stephen Perkins - Jane's Addiction
or....
Jean-Paul Gaster - Clutch
Two of my all time favorites!
Randy
Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:11 pm
tnaughton
Multiple Donor
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 12:48 pm Posts: 63
Re: Best Drummer?
Buddy Rich I use to see him every year as he would tour in the early 80's with his band ( And at the time was a HUGE Bruford fan ... still am ) but for me very few people even come close to what buddy rich's talent
Tom
Best Drum Solo I've seen in a "Rock" environment would be Carl Palmer during the first ASIA tour guy was an animal HUGE gong rose up out of the drum riser and the very end he just jump up on top of his Drum throne with a big primal scream! Was a great show
Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:36 pm
adde65
Site Donor
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 4:10 pm Posts: 860 Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Re: Best Drummer?
The "Jaco of drums"? Steve Gadd is freakishly good, and has been for the last 40 years or so.
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