Hi Greg,
We met in Las Vegas when there was a stick seminar at Oscar Carrescia's music house. I grew up in Las Vegas and that's who I studied classical guitar from but I'm currently in Indonesia. My name is also Greg.

I checked out the offset modal system article before. It's cool. It used to be my whole guitar approach but three notes per string doesn't work for me anymore. I wrote elsewhere how limiting that is for guitarists and how saxophonists couldn't live with it for very long. Although nothing beats scales for improving technique, running up and down scales isn't very musical especially if trying to emulate jazz bebop lines. I feel the primary tools for jazz improvisation for beginners are tetrachords (not complete scales), 3 note quartal arpeggios, and first inversion triadic arpeggios with four notes of a pentatonic thrown in later for good measure. Permutations of those are the basic motifs of jazz, rock, pop, and blues.

I wanted to say for anyone listening that if you don't want to sound like a 1960 hippy then don't play pentatonics without chromatic additions unless you're mixing them up with other things such as arpeggios and scale snippets.

Nice to remake your acquaintance, Greg.

As to your comment about running up and down scales I couldn't agree more, so I always teach my students how to practice intervallic movement within each key, scale or mode.

It seems to me that every melody can be broken down into 4 elements and the way they are combined.

1. movement through scale tones
2. movement through passing tones
3. intervallic movement
4. repeated notes

The "key" at any moment can be changing, as can the position on the board, so knowing how each key feels is really important. Three notes per string is just the basic structure for diatonic harmony. No one is saying you have to use all the notes or that there aren't many in between that will work great. But, if you can learn the basic movements that will allow you to move easily through these 4 elements without having to concentrate on technique, and to freely shift positions on the board while you do it, you can focus on the harmonic framework that interests you. Exercises that combine the four elements above are the most productive (I think), precisely because they prepare your hand to deal with real-world situations, anywhere on the board.

But you obviously know much more about harmony than I ever will, so I'm looking forward to learning some things about that from you, and hopefully being able to contribute some ideas about how to apply them, with an individual hand on the fretboard.

I know this is a music theory thread, but some practical context to movement on the board might be nice.

I think it would be great if you could post a simple example of what your talking about so that people could see your point on the page and start thinking about it in a one-handed context.

Ears Ears Ears.....you have to hear it altered chord stacking coltrane try-harmonic, hybrid scales. you have to hear it.

more later gotta teach

Brett

Greg,

I can't put anything up on Youtube most likely because our connection here is both slow and unreliable which is deadly on huge video uploads. Even a very short video is in the huge category where we are and the longer it takes the more chances the connection will be lost even for a moment basically terminated the pipe dream to upload video. I have noticed that things are improving lately though so it still could happen at some point in the future. Getting back to the music. I have great respect for you as a stick player, educator and promotor of the Stick and it's basic method.

I'm trying to accomplish something very difficult with my compositions and have been leaving it up to the computer to realize them but then I had an epiphany about using two sticks wired to bass, chords and lead. The leads I want to play will be much easier if I DON'T need to know where the scale is that fits the chord over the whole fretboard.

I noticed that although someone like Chick Corea CAN make the changes on an atonal chord progression, as often as not, he riffs on the only common tone between them simplifying things significantly or plays something totally ambiguous that would work over anything.

That idea came back to me when reading an article about how Wayne Shorter does his music. Basically, he embellishes each note of the scale with tetra chords, arpeggios, intervals, pentatonics. If you play a tetrachord on C and again on D then play an arpeggios on Eb, (always coming back to one string just moving up to the next note) you'll understand my approach. You don't need to know if the tetrachord you're playing is right or not. If you repeat it, then you'll sound like you meant to do it basically making anything sound cool.

I personally don't like playing a tetrachord in the guitar tuning for starters, because if I fingered a C Maj tetrachord using the second finger on C the fourth on D the first on E and the second on F, if I want to keep moving up the string starting my next major tetrachord on D starting with the second finger, the second finger has to hop from where it was to where I want it next. It feels so much better to use another finger. You COULD use another finger to start on the D but it kind of messes up motion up the string. I also don't like 3 note quartal arpeggios all on one fret and with adjacent strings which is one reason why I've retuned my stick to be in minor thirds. That and the fact the minor third tuning allows me to get non third chords in closed position such as CFGA and CGABb.

So, Oceans,

Another cool thing you can do with the harmony is to play any of those random arpeggios that you're hanging on the scale functioning as your middle ground that you've got running through your tune is to play them as a chord over the top of the existing harmony creating a polychord. I think the last track I put up has both the keyboard and the guitar player doing that and I've got one more I just finished which I haven't put up yet. The best thing is that it doesn't matter what chord you're playing as long as the root is part of your chosen scale to fill up that measure's harmony.

I wanted to also impress upon all Stick players the importance of chord voicings. Please care about yours. Yes, the little old lady who enjoys your stick sound and the novelty of the first, fifth, third in open voicing that you play in the left hand for all your triads is an important and valid source of feedback for your music. However, other musicians, especially those who play jazz and who love harmony will definitely NOT be impressed. Common chord voicings are drop 2, drop 4, drop 2/4 and also moving the third note in the chord up an octave are all useful, good sounding voicings.

To easily make your chords sound jazzy right away, you can play 5 note quartal chords. Pianists usually put 3 in the right hand and 2 in the left. The right hand part of the chord generally doesn't go below C3. Major quartal chords descend in fourths from the root or fifth not built up in thirds like normal tertian harmony. Minor quartal chords descend from the b3rd. In a normal stick tuning that's just one finger so everyone's gonna love that. Instantly sound Bill Evansish. Dominant chords require one alteration so you'll need two fingers.

After quartal and quintal harmony are the non-third chords. Non-third chords exist because a jazz soloist is most likely going to be targeting the third (and seventh) of the chord if he's "making the changes." I suspect our ears are used to hearing seventh chords which have four notes so when you leave out the third and seventh you have to put back in some other notes in their place. Non-third chords sound best if they have four notes. If you've got to leave a note out then leave out the root since the "bass player" is going to be playing it unless he isn't in which case you'll need it. So, for a C Maj chord there are several non-third voicings you could create; CDFG, CDGA, CFGA. Other possibilities could include the seventh chord for a greater amount of variety. CDGB, CFGB, CGAB. There's no reason why there can't be five notes and sometimes there are. Don't forget you can have alterations so then you've got CDbFG, CDF#G, CDFGb, CDbF#G, CDbFGb, CDbGA, CDGAb etc... If you want to play these in open voicings, start with dropping the D down an octave and then the D and G etc... Use your ears!!! Don't just accept what the instrument makes it easy to play.

It gets really interesting when the keyboardist is playing one chord voicing with his chosen alternations and you're playing a different chord voicing with different alterations creating a very dissonant but still correct cacophony. The stick has the ability to put one in the left hand and another in the right hand all by your self if you care to try it.

Your non-third chords usually need the root because in the fusion style, the bass player doesn't have to be playing roots. He could be playing variations on the melody, he could be "making the changes" himself or he could be playing each measure backwards to test if everyone can still hang together in which case the root probably won't come until the end of the measure instead of at the beginning.