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 Horizontal Versus Vertical Stick Technique 
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Post Re: Horizontal Versus Vertical Stick Technique
On the 3 fingers vs 4 thing - my view is this: when I started playing guitar in the early 60s I studied and learned from a couple monster players who stressed to me the importance of having a strong left hand pinky. The layout and tendon structure as well as the position of the pinky at the edge of the hand makes it much like a mini index finger if well developed. The reach it provides can be critical in many cases and I've always used it plenty on guitar. Therefore when I picked up Stick 3 years ago my mission was to train my right hand to be as strong in every way as a fretting hand. I'm getting there but it will be a couple more years for that to be a reallity. Meanwhile I'm slogging away trying to get as much as I can out of all my digits. Still there are instances with the right hand where 3 fingers gets me there more accurately than 4 and I'll go that route when necessary. But you can't get a strong pinky without using it.


Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:50 am
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Post Re: Horizontal Versus Vertical Stick Technique
Steve, you're gonna dig the prog lenses. It takes a bit of getting used to though. The ultimate quest is to play without looking, but as a newb you kind of have to see what you're doing. It takes time dude.
Don't be afraid to loosen your "neck strap" and get the Stick a bit farther from your face, but not so far as to mess with the method (again, to each his own, watch Steve play, he kills it with an almost guitar position).
The pinky thing....well, thats an old argument....and I see both sides. I'm lazy, so I adopted the three finger approach 'cause it seemed like less work, not to diminish those that use only three. Bob and Steve both advocate the use of four, and I can see why....its an extra finger dammit.

Of course, you gotta use all four on the bass side....and I'm not aware of anyone who doesnt employ this method.

cheers,
kev

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Fri Sep 11, 2015 5:06 pm
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Post Re: Horizontal Versus Vertical Stick Technique
kevin-c wrote:
The pinky thing....well, thats an old argument....and I see both sides. I'm lazy, so I adopted the three finger approach 'cause it seemed like less work, not to diminish those that use only three. Bob and Steve both advocate the use of four, and I can see why....its an extra finger dammit.

Of course, you gotta use all four on the bass side....and I'm not aware of anyone who doesnt employ this method.

cheers,
kev
Hi Kev,

At this point, for bass lines I never use the pinky. The sound is so much stronger and consistent without it. I move around a lot, so not using it is no big deal, and not having to bring it into line with the other fingers is a big plus. Gotta use it for chords, though.

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Fri Sep 11, 2015 5:53 pm
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Post Re: Horizontal Versus Vertical Stick Technique
kevin-c wrote:
Steve, you're gonna dig the prog lenses. It takes a bit of getting used to though.

My eye doctor confirms that I've lost a bit of the near vision since my last exam 2 years ago, but not alarmingly so. Just getting older.

Had a nice conversation explaining what a Chapman Stick is. Turns out, my doctor played violin as a kid, and still noodles with it. He made a point to write down "Chapman Stick" and said he wanted to look it up later. I showed him a picture of me playing in the vertical position and where it was normally in relation to my face.

He thinks the progressive lenses, and bigger lenses, so I can look down at the fretboard and still have glasses left to look through, will work well. He also recommended some reading glasses ("granny glasses" from your local pharmacy bin) when wearing contacts. I got my contacts prescription updated also.

So, larger lenses with the progressive gradient will let me see close up on the fretboard and also be able to see further without eye strain. The doc said just what Kev did, that they take a bit to get used to, but it's worth it.

Now, I wait 7-10 business days. I can pick up the reading glasses anywhere tomorrow, for use with contacts.

Thanks, guys. That'll take care of the eye stuff (hopefully).

And then Greg raises the pot: even one less pinky on the left hand bass side now.
Quote:
At this point, for bass lines I never use the pinky.

I don't have an informed opinion as of yet to wade in, but I love seeing that there are different camps and techniques, and really, it's all good.

Edit:
Oh, the point--I see that the pinky is not a make or break reason to switch to horizontal--my piano pinky will either turn into a Stick pinky or I'll fall in the 3-finger camp. Either way, the vision thing is also fixed. I guess I'll keep on with vertical.

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Fri Sep 11, 2015 6:34 pm
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Post Re: Horizontal Versus Vertical Stick Technique
I know that it has taken me a long time (About a year, but I am a noob too. I suck! Haha) to get comfortable with wearing the Stick; it takes some time. Just gotta commit...

Jeff Healey was a monster guitarist. I was in a local band that opened for his group several years ago, he was a very, very nice man and an excellent musician. Playing guitar like that was just natural for him, so he ran with it...

Hmmn. 3 fingers vs 4, in my opinion it is less of an "argument" than a "path". I play with oven mitts on, so I can't comment either way. (Oven mitts technique, it's a new thing look it up, it's for people who sound bad who want to sound worse!) lol

I can't wait to see what you post, looking forward to hearing your music, man!

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Fri Sep 11, 2015 7:33 pm
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Post Re: Horizontal Versus Vertical Stick Technique
greg wrote:
kevin-c wrote:
The pinky thing....well, thats an old argument....and I see both sides. I'm lazy, so I adopted the three finger approach 'cause it seemed like less work, not to diminish those that use only three. Bob and Steve both advocate the use of four, and I can see why....its an extra finger dammit.

Of course, you gotta use all four on the bass side....and I'm not aware of anyone who doesnt employ this method.

cheers,
kev
Hi Kev,

At this point, for bass lines I never use the pinky. The sound is so much stronger and consistent without it. I move around a lot, so not using it is no big deal, and not having to bring it into line with the other fingers is a big plus. Gotta use it for chords, though.


Yes, for chords the use of the pinky is paramount....... I dont play basslines yet, but I can understand the power that comes from the strong first three fingers when doing basslines. Funny thing is, as a bass player, I use my pinky all the time.....economy of motion with that instrument.

cheers,
k

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Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:39 pm
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Post Re: Horizontal Versus Vertical Stick Technique
But... Oven mitts. It gives a really muffled "fumm fumm" sound to what is normally "thwap hack".
it also helps if you add a gross amount of spring reverb, and a Big Muff Pi on both sides.

Lol just kidding!

Greg's Bach thing on only the bass side was pretty killer... One of my favourite Howard clips!

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Sat Sep 12, 2015 11:06 pm
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Post Re: Horizontal Versus Vertical Stick Technique
Hnd to ey coord.
No platos on Stk.
Alwys anothr layr to ad, piano styl.
Thus yu'l alwys be lern'g.
Yu'l alwys nd yur ey for th nw stuf,
and the $ notes.


Sun Sep 13, 2015 12:38 pm
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Post Re: Horizontal Versus Vertical Stick Technique
BSharp wrote:
Hnd to ey coord.
No platos on Stk.
Alwys anothr layr to ad, piano styl.
Thus yu'l alwys be lern'g.
Yu'l alwys nd yur ey for th nw stuf,
and the $ notes.


No doubt. Cool how the mind "fills in the blanks"..,

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Mon Sep 14, 2015 6:05 am
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Post Re: Horizontal Versus Vertical Stick Technique
Oh Hey, a great big thanks to paigan0 for the original post about the difficulties associated with playing the stick vertically instead of horizontally.
I realize this post was several years ago and I intend to read up on your progress.
Essentially, your post was a much more articulate version of how I felt about the stick several weeks after receiving it. The only difference is with my vision. I am extremely far sighted, have a considerable astigmatism, and am afflicted with a condition which makes it almost impossible to 'track' a string, that is, when I play a low note on a particular string it's almost impossible to find and play that same string higher up on the fret board.

I cannot tell you how frustrating this is. It's also difficult to read music because the astigmatism makes the horizontal and vertical lines on the page strobe and difficult to parse.

I thought there was suddenly something wrong with my left pinkie because it felt so weak on the stick. I can produce much more power on the piano. Like you, I've been playing for many decades and it's a bitch wrapping my head around this 'new' way of playing on a stringed instrument whose tuning would seem just fine to Wrong Way Corrigan.

As much as I tried (though I purchased my grand stick a few years ago, my frustration level caused me to stop playing it till a very short time ago, I was either buzzing or misjudging the distance to the fret I wanted to play, and most often even if I'd play the correct fret, it would be on the wrong string!!
Makes me crazy :o

Now, with the Interlochen workshop coming up, I decided to practice as much as I am able and hopefully regain some of the few good habits I picked up thanks to the videos, books, and Greg via Skype and in person. Greg, You Da Man :) and when I play a video after trying in vain to explain to someone what a Chapman Stick is, it's usually one of yours or Bob's.

I don't know what else to say except if anyone knows of some 'trick' to help me visually track a string down the fret board I'd be in your debt.
My wife suggested I used different colored strings and I think that's a possible solution. IF colored strings are available. I'd hate to draw colored lines all up and down my beautiful fret board. Besides, I don't have enough crayons.

Now that I have vented and cried out for help, I feel a bit better and less solitary in my frustrated attempts at the instrument. If I were a driver, I'd probably be the guy who won't want to ask for directions...

Thanks again for the post which made me feel less alone and I suspect you stuck with the traditional playing position. I hate that feeling of "Drat, I will NEVER be able to do this!"

Maybe I will ;)
Cheers


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