All,

Hello. I'm mainly a guitarist who picked up an NS/Stick and I'm having some difficulty learning it. Sure you can use bass books or try to use guitar licks on the NS/Stick and this works to some degree, but then you mainly have an expensive guitar/bass that is underutilized and sounds worse than just playing a guitar and bass separately in a looper or multi-track.

For me the point of a stick is about learning the performance techniques which are different from other instruments.

OK. So why the trouble?

Well, for me, and maybe others are the same, there is not a lot of self study material (particularly for NS/Stick).

I'm not quick enough to take real-time lessons from someone via skype, and there just isn't anything out there like there is for guitar.

For example, for guitar there are multitudes of high quality tutorial formats that are really pretty good. For example,

1. http://www.riffinteractive.com/ - this site has an interactive experience that is top notch including videos, tab, midi, etc to let you see what is going on in the theme.

Imagine if Don Schiff or Greg made a couple of these for NS/Stick??? That would be awesome, and I would certainly pay $30-$50 for each of them. Perhaps others would too.

2. http://www.truefire.com/ - this site has a boatload of material available at varying degrees of complexity. Minimally you get MP3s and PDFs, but in other cases they have power tab, etc.

What prevents such instruction from being available to NS/Stick players? Lack of interest? Lack of tools?

Am I the only one who'd like to see some standalone instruction or, heaven forbid, a dedicated book?

BTW, I'm not ranting, just hoping that someone else shares my enthusiasm for obtaining such materials and chimes in to inspire someone with knowledge to contribute to it. I'm sure it could be somewhat profitable and wouldn't cost that much to put together.

my $0.02.

-Jim

Hi Jim,

I'm not sure if it's helpful to you or not, but you can certainly use my book to help you get your right hand going, and also to work on independence. If your NS is tuned to the conventional 8 strings in 4ths, then that makes your highest string a Bb. If you used the Baritone Melody version of the book, then everything would just be one fret lower of your instrument than it's written in the book. If you had the Matched Reciprocl version of the book, then everything would be two frets higher.

As far as video-conference lessons go, you can record the lessons, both yours and my audio, and your video for reference and practice purposes. There are a few folks here who've been taking lessons with me. If they want to comment to you about the experience, then I hope they will.

I don't know how helpful I woul be teaching the left hand on the NS, because the angles are so different, but I could certainly help you get more out of the right.

Happy New Year and...

I'd like to chime in here a little being a bass player/guitarist and also being a player of an NS Stick and a traditional Stick.

In regard to the left BASS hand of the NS Stick this should be fairly natural to you. The neck position is different if you're two hand tapping because you'll hold the neck more vertical however the fingering is the same as a bass guitar with a low B string. The only real difference is you sound the string by tapping which takes some adjustment, especially for repeated same string quarter and 8th notes tapping. As Greg said ALL information in regard to the melody strings of a traditional Stick can relate directly to the melody strings of the NS Stick. Most traditional Stick melody tunings are in straight 4ths ... just like the melody strings of the NS Stick. Fact is not only can you directly (except possible for fret placement) relate the traditional Stick melody string learning materials to the NS Stick melody strings you can also use these exercises to help train your bass hand. Regardless of octave or hand stright 4ths tuning is straight 4ths tuning. So I think one of the reasons there isn't a lot of dedicated NS Stick learning materials around is because the traditional Stick melody information also relates to the NS Stick. (And also because so few Ns Sticks exist) If you go to the official NS Stick site Don Schiff has several mini lessons specifically geared to the NS Stick however again any melody Stick materials will work on the NS.

One quick exercise I do when warming up to get both hands working on the NS Stick is to have my melody hand mirror my bass hand. I play the exact same line that I'm playing with my bass hand except two octaves higher on the melody strings. This is also a good way to fill up the sound when playing the "bass player" role in a band. This also works with the traditional Stick except of course your bass hand plays the octaves "backwards" on the traditional Stick compaired to the melody strings. (Which actually can sound pretty cool)

So don't dispair or give up. I suggest buying one of the traditional Stick books as Gregg has also suggested and concentrate on the melody string exercises. (with BOTH hands) The chord forms and exercises to get your right hands fingers WORKING will all relate and will get you'up and running" before you know it!

Based on the experience of going to a couple Stick seminars and a few lessons with Greg, I would think one Skype lesson with Don Schiff would be the equivalent of hours of going through part of a book, even if you think you might not be able to keep up... I think Don's probably experienced teaching folks of all skill levels and can pace the lesson accordingly.

I think there is also an element of the NS/Stick being largely "unexplored territory"... it's a big effort to put an instruction resource together never mind the years of coming up with all the techniques to begin with. Guitar and bass seems to have much more "standard repertoire" and signature concepts to learn from and there are teachers all over the world, while there are just a handful of NS players. Checking out solo bass guys like Michael Manring, Jeff Schmidt, and even YouTube newcomers like Zander (http://www.youtube.com/user/Zander4724) might give you some ideas to explore.

As others have said a lot of the standard Stick instruction can be applied to right hand technique. Are you interested in playing the NS as a solo instrument or developing a style that works within the context of a band? I had an NS for a while and used it for simultaneous basslines and simple chords in the context of a band, but I can also relate to the "what else can I do with this thing?" kind of dilemma. An instrument with a lot of musical possibilities can also be frustrating in it's open-endedness if you don't have specific goals in mind.

BTW- although the timetable has been pushed back, there will be an aforementioned Truefire Stick instructional course available, probably early spring. It was recorded last year but editing, finalization and packaging has taken a while.
Steve A

Did you see these on Don's site?

http://www.nsstickist.com/nstech.htm

I like the ones where you do alternating rhythms with each hand; you don't need to look at playing lots of notes, just take one note on each hand, say a straight quarternote pattern with the left, straight eighth with the right, then reverse the parts for each hand. I still do that on occaision making up my own patterns, sometimes using chords.

When I bought mine four years ago, I learned to keep another instrument in a stand to pick up when I got frustrated with the NS. Part of my issue was to get rid of a bass cab I had that could not handle the higher frequencies. I also tune mine BEADGBEA as I wasn't fond of the straight fourth's sound, plus it made learning more in line to what I was doing with a guitar.

What I've learned about two hand independance is I have to see it on paper. What I don't have in writing that I can figure out by ear, I'll use Finale software and write out the melody and bass lines. The whole point is to see the "timeline" of when each note on both sides is occurring. I have a looper, sometimes playing one side against a looped side helps, but for me seeing on paper works better. Plus I can play in the computer what I write in Finale to make sure what I wrote actually works musically.

Some things I figure out, others I may struggle with. I'm still struggling with "I Wish" on my Grand. Steve Adelson taught us the bass line at the last seminar here, I figured out the melody on my own and put it all down on paper.

As Rob pointed out there's not a lot of NS players out there. When I bought mine, someone posted here around 2005 that there were only 130 NS Sticks out there. So the instrument is somewhat new, and has some capabilities that are different from the SB8.

Don't give up too quick. I'm finding what I do with my NS & Grand translates some benefits back to bass & guitar.

Hi Jim,

I can sympathize with your frustration. A good suggestion is to hook up with other players and using Skype to video conference for lessons is great. Greg Howard has given me some Skype lessons (he in Virginia...me in Arizona) and they are a bargain and extremely helpful.

Skype is a software that supports video conferencing calls. Computer to computer is free (other connection arrangements require a fee). Check out Skype: http://www.skype.com/

There are several Stick-NS/Stick Player/Teachers that use this forum and maybe you'll be able to get a good student/teacher relationship going. Good luck.

Getting started with good habits can really impact how quickly you progress and how far you can develop as a player. I urge you to look into Skype lessons right away.

-Walter

Although I have moved from the NS to the 10 string, I found the NS to be very intuitive for me. A lot of things traditional stick players were doing like reaching with the left hand to play chords along with bass lines made things a bit fun, especially when playing a relatively simple pattern with your ring, index and middle fingers and reaching up with the pinkie and getting 9th chords while your right hand runs a melody or complimentary chords.

I also believe as Rob said that what you are wanting to utilize the NS for is very important in your approach to it. If you are wanting to use it in a band setting, there are areas you probably want to lay down some regular bottom end, but then with the extended range you can take some guitar lines. This was the way I always utilized it, but there were also moments for it to shine. In rehearsal, my drummer and I would usually take a 30 minute warm up session just playing and improvising, getting to know each others playing and exploring techniques. A lot of times sitting alone and practicing the same standard lessons by yourself can be not only boring, but with no feedback, you are relying on your ear to tell you what sounds good and not stop and ask to hear it again.

Don't give up or get frustrated, just explore. Mistakes often lead to new ideas.

Bill I didn't realize you moved to a Standard Stick. Do you still play the NS in your band?

I actually traded it in for the 10 string. I miss it too.