@Andy

The people we play for every weekend of every month remark time and time again how amazing it is that we use no backing tracks or loops. They can't believe that Mark and I are producing all of the sound they're hearing. I don't know how many times I've had people inspect my pedalboard, checking for loopers or whatever. This ends up being a selling point. I hear stuff like " I thought that was looping or backing tracks. That's amazing. I want a CD!" I've seen it for the last seven years. Sorry dude. People do care if they're hearing a machine or live people. And if there are some who don't, I DO!!

I agree that sometimes looping can get boring unless it is used sparingly. Just saw Adrian Belew tonight and he used looping in a few tunes. Sometimes it was awesome and sometimes it was an annoying cacophony of grating tones that he played solos over. I've seen some performers who are masters of the technology and use the looper in a very musical way. Zoe Keating is a favorite of mine and she plays cello and abelton for looping.

I can't see how anyone could say that looping is for losers after watching this performance

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYrcXX4nWOA[/youtube]

Matt, you have more discerning audiences ... but in my experience the #1 selling point is the music. I agree that a lot of people want to know "where the bass track is coming from" etc. Most of the time I find that they tend to be musicians, or at least people who dabble in music on some level. There's no doubt that the Stick's inherent "completeness" helps sell some CDs, and blow people away. I've never made a big deal about it, because like most musicians (loopers and non-loopers) I just hope that people enjoy the end result. I've picked up 3 relatively high profile gigs this week, and none of the people who booked me were really aware that I played anything other than a "guitar" of some sort.
The bottom line is that we're both among the lucky ones who have found a way of making it work for us in our own ways - so keep up the great work !

However, a lot of the grandmas who also buy Andre Rieu DVDs couldn't care less about what's being played by whom. Trust me, I know some very average musicians who exploit this to the hilt. Looking at my local market, I'm pretty sure I could milk "Amazing Grace" with orchestral backing tracks and make a killing, but to be honest I'd rather get by with what I do...

Cheers,
Andy

I've always enjoyed Zoe's stuff; quite possibly my favourite looping-based artist ever. She gets such a great sound out of that cello, which is a crucial starting point.

Cheers,
Andy

I always thought the only thing that mattered when you listened to music was whether you liked it or not...I really don't care how the person makes it happen.

As someone who dabbles in playing instruments, I can certainly respect someone who plays live without a lot of effects and such, but then again I have heard plenty of "unaltered music" that I find completely unoriginal and just plain wank-off material. How many notes can I play in some obscure and unmusical mode or what not?...etc. And I have heard lots of very highly processed music that I find just amazing.

Anyway, anyone who says playing with/with-out effects is the only measure of a true "musician" is full of it. The only measure of a true musician is whether or not you like what you play. If other people happen to like it as well and buy it/praise it/copy it/whatever...so the better for you.

It's freakin' subjective man!

Why define yourself by what other people think?

Since 99.9% of popular music is formulaic and repetitive, there is enough "sampling" and "looping" going on without gadgets. But if they're used to make it easier to perform something interesting, I'm all for it. This outfit, for instance, used to perform to keyboard backing tracks, but I wouldn't call them musically lazy....

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxhuQWKwbqY[/youtube]


Mad Monk.

Randy,

Let's get a bit more specfiic. Using effects is an entirely different matter than using loopers. I use effects; reverb, delay, synth, and plenty of them on plenty of tunes. But I can plug straight into an amp and hold my own with all comers. My ability is not defined by my rig. Just a fact.

Looping is different. It's overdubbing in a live context. It's not an "effect". All I was saying was that anyone who can't manage to sit down and play a song without looping isn't much of a musician. And anyone who says different than that is "full of crap". Peace.

Agreed on all parts. 99% of the time, if I see a video and someone's using loops, I just stop watching . As soon as I see someone's hands stop moving for a second and the music keeps playing -- that kills it for me.

The only time I've ever REALLY enjoyed anything close to a loop was Yngwie Malmsteen's "Echo Etude".. And that wasn't really a loop. he set a boss delay for something like .5 seconds and then played a couple a series of lines that interconnected to sound like a fugue.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvxPui7s4so[/youtube]

He never just plays a rhythm then plays a lead over it.

I use my Z Vex Loop Junky when I need some beer and don't want to stop making "noise".
I have also used the reverse function on my loop station to do soundscape stuff to solo over.
They are tools and can be overused .I think if you are having fun ,use them.
"Ultimately,who gives a fuck anyway"

I honestly don't have that strong of an opinion on this but I think your stance is close-minded and elitist. To make a blanket statement like that is ridiculous. I should give you a chance to clarify. Are you saying those who use looping aren't "much of a musician"? Or are you saying those that are unable to play something with 2 independent parts simultaneously without the aid of a looping device are crappy musicians?