Nobody's thrashing you, Glenn. I was the first one to single you out when this thread started. My venom is for those who have no idea what love, discipline, and devotion to one's craft is all about, but they hide behind technology and have the balls to put themselves in our league.

P.S. Glenn

I've heard what you can do solo (loopless). I think it's worlds better that your orchestrated stuff. Show me some more of that!

I understand that and I appreciated the mentions as I said before. My point is that the entertainment business has been made up in large part of those kinds of people for over a century and that will never change. The specific things we're talking about here are simply the device du jour. People had issues with the synthesizer, the electric guitar ... hell ... even the piano at one point in time. Luckily those things carried on in spite of the naysayers and time allowed for the diamonds in the rough to emerge.

The problem is that we're trying to quantify some kind of measurement in regards to an art form and that simply can't be done. There is always going to be someone who comes along whose education and skills might be limited but they have that extra something that tugs on people's emotions. The master of proficiency is going to kick and scream but the people listening are going to say "we don't care, we love this music." It happens all the time. Hell ... I shake my head in wonderment every time I hear Springsteen ... or Lou Reed

Honestly I think we have the same gripes. The difference is that some here are singling out the technology while others are singling out the mindset.

Look at the bright side. At least we're not actors. Talk about an abused art form.

I hear you, Glenn, and I understand what you're saying.

It just seems that technology, talentless people, and the masses who don't know any better are all reaching an apex that's like nothing that's ever come down the pike.

Some engineer just grabs a loop or groove from some pre-fab software, the talentless singer (Jennifer Lopez) mics up, they throw the industry-standard "warbly de-tune" effect on the voice, add some LOOPS, and it's off to the Grammys. Makes me puke.

The Stick could become like this one day. Keep on cheapening it with more boxes and less talent. See what happens.

The masses have never known any better. It's likely the masses will never know any better. And if you try to educate them or even suggest that they need education, they'll label you a snob.

Why is it when I tell people that I have a degree in computer science they ask me to fix their computer but when I tell them I was a university music major, they tell me I must be snob?

The fact is, people choose music that is familiar and made by people who they can relate to. It's a lifestyle affirmation more than anything else. The masses gravitate to the mundane stuff that's been done a million times. The middle-aged masses won't listen to anything that came out after they graduated high school. The people who like to consider themselves as non-conformist like to gravitate toward stuff that's more off the beaten path. But in spite of the differences between those examples, they are still lifestyle affirmation choices. For the most part, the only ones who care about what went into it are other musicians. But then I suppose that is a lifestyle affirmation choice as well.

I understand what ails you brother. But if you let that stick in your craw, it's going to be a long depressing life.

I simply vow not to contribute to the problem. Mark will not be replaced by a looper. I play my parts in real time. Hell, in the 5 CDs we've recorded we used exactly THREE overdubs. We can execute every part of our music, no matter how simple or complex, RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU.. I think that says something and I'm proud of it. There's dignity in that. There's a feel to it that cannot be duplicated by artificial means.

Or maybe you need to take off the dress and put on some big boy pants like the rest of us. All I've read so far is people stating their point of view. Go play mom somewhere else.

Tritone

Seems there is not much room for levity here. Sad to hear my stock is down.

I think good art is good art. One could use a device and make great art, like Glen, or one can use a device to make crap like the fellow Brett mentions at the beginning of this thread.

I would LOVE to hear you put into words what you think musical ability is cause I know it would be hilarious.

Tritone

Loopers don't get jealous if you gig with other loopers.

I say use of a device like a looper, or an echo unit, or a fuzz box, or a chorus pedal, or a tape recorder does not exclude dedication to development of skill & craft.

I can admire Heartstrings and Glen Poorman.

Don't sweat it Jeff. You see, the blame lies with me. I got my claws into little Frodo and drug him down to my level. All was right at the renaissance fair until I rolled in like a plague. At first he tried to reason with me. Then he tried to rise above me. But like a plague I engulfed him and now he is infected. Terminal dissonance. Usually an extremely serious and dangerous affliction. Fortunately for you all, our Frodo lacks the cognitive function necessary for it to truly blossom.

Tritone