Hi Folks!
I'm a Newbie stick owner (just acquired a nice used 36" purple heart 10 string with midi).
My history: I've been playing guitar and some bass for 30 some years, (Prog, metal, and hard rock) I'm self taught, mostly play by ear or compose my own stuff. I've taken some piano lessons a few years back because I needed too,,, so I understood what's up a tad better.
any way - now I have a new tool.
Wondering about tunings, I just set this 10 up with classic tuning. was thinking about taking some book and video lessons to get familiar with the hands and some chords, then i saw a video of Greg H. plaving 2 handed bass runs with Dual Bass Reciprocal, and thought !! , that's the direction I want to go. So (I think) I need to practice the hand positions ( um, stay in standard tuning for this?) then use the Stick in more of a bass with the sticks deep notes with attack sounds.
Anyone been down this path?
Should i look at an NS?

thanks
Randy

DBR is definitely really cool - I ordered my 10 String with DBR and that's what I play in the bass role. I am working on my Tony Levin two-handed funky bass style. That sounds like what you are talking about.

DBR has some very cool geometric symmetry which is awesome in its own right. It's a great option is you really want to occupy the low end.

A couple of things to note are: 1. you can occupy the low end in Classic too - you just have to learn how. The notes are all there. The one caveat I think is that most folks would agree it's harder to play melodic bass lines in 5ths. But you CAN funk as hard as anyone if you want to. And 2. you can learn and practice true Free Hands technique in DBR using the various instructional materials around, but I can't say I find it sonically pleasing. Unless you're playing melody way up high, DBR has lots of tonal overlap so it can get a little muddy. This is one of the reasons I acquired an SG12 - I two-hand funk the DBR Stick and Free Hands the SG12. Obviously, that's not an option for everyone.

Whether or not to get an NS is orthogonal. It's a wonderful instrument but not related to your question.

My recommendation: buy a set of DBR strings and try them out! Watch Greg's excellent video on the subject first. Take a good photo of your bridge settings. Save your Classic strings. You you can easily switch back later if you wish.

Good luck and welcome!

"Whether or not to get an NS is orthogonal"

Ha! ~and ~ you filled your reply with good advice globules.

thank you!!

Of course wit hthe midi on the melody side, you COULD use the roland V-guitar system and custom tune. Best of both worlds, except of course for the cost issue.

Maybe look into the Boss GP-10?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37SQCAH4If8

The only way I'd use DBR is if I was gonna be a bass player in a band,cover all styles of bass and had to play it on a Stick. If you want to play Stick as a bass & guitar or just as one big instrument like a piano - or both - then the best use of 10 strings is classic bass and baritone melody. That's my opinion. The whole 2 handed bass thing can be done on the bass side of the Stick on 5 strings without having to make the whole thing into a bass. You see people do that all the time. As far technique issues - the only difficult thing in 5ths for me is walking lines. Everything else is easy to get at - different but easy. And even then,walking lines are there to be played but are just stretched out into bigger leaps than 4ths. 2 hands for walking bass lines would make things easier but not really necessary. I was lucky in my transition to Stick because I already played guitar in 4ths, mandocello in 5ths and pedal steel in 2nds & 3rds. I was used to weird shit.

Hi Randy.!

You might base your decision purely on sound.

The NS is a different beast in terms of tone, while I tend to think of Stick in DBR as an extended alto range bass role instrument. As you h3 says, the notes are all there.

From this standpoint your decision is a simple one. I hope that helps.

Thanks for the comments and advice,,, I ~Almost~ have a clue now,,,, I need a little more advice and subconscious reinforcement... This forum rocks.

Is there a chart of list of what tunings need "what type" or gauge of string sets?

I've sent an e-mail off the SE, they must be busy, no reply. I see by the String Price list in the SE site that they have Dual Bass Reciprocal tuning listed in the "custom sets".

Wondering - Is it ok to just re-tune and set up for the other listed 10 string tunings with a normal set of strings?

I'm wondering about trying some of the deeper tunings. I do know this might be all too new to me to know what tuning to try. But I feel like I'm still in "setup and explore" mode. I keep finding cool bass patterns and just want to take off jamming Levin like runs and record them then track some guitar over them..... Oy! So I keep backing up....

More recent history - My (used but in perfect shape) 10 string came with the strings loosened. The previous owner wasn't sure what it was tuned in, so I went for classical, that seemed correct as far as the intonation was close but the action was really high (> 3/16") and the truss was off (bow). I've set necks on guitars for years. So (using Greg's video thank you sir!) I got the neck straight, (it's dead straight with no tension on the truss, hope that's normal) and tuned, then started lowering the bridge string by string. wow. cool. I've got my action low on my Carvins and Hamers but this is unreal. The bass sounds are fantastic, and I just lightly touch it.

I've Started going through some online "start-up" er, newbie videos, then I keep getting distracted,,,, after I learn a new chord pattern I go off on an exploratory tangent. That's kind of why I was wondering about the "bass" like tunings, if they are more familiar to Guitar/bass players, and there has to be some one who has traveled this path. I'm probably going to end up in a "bass player" situation, but mostly in my own small studio. Or jamming with friends. That's all open ended....

Hi Randy,

Welcome to Stickland! If you are only imagining the Stick as a "bass" instrument, then DBR is a great option. But looking at your background, and knowing what the instrument is capable of is a more broad tuning, I'd encourage you to stay in a higher melody group for now, for a few reasons.

First, two-handed bass, of the kind pioneered by Tony Levin, doesn't require any alteration to the bass side tuning. He used 5ths on the bass like most of us do, and then had his melody strings available for guitar-range parts when he only needed one hand to play the bass part. In fact he played a fair amount this was on the '80s King Crimson recordings and tours, but it can be hard to sort this out with Fripp and Belew laying down such a complex of guitar sounds.

There are lots of video examples of him doing this, most easily heard and seen on songs like "Waiting Man" and "Satori in Tangier" where Belew played drums and electronic percussion in concert:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64swVmq_XPk[/youtube]

You've probably already seen it, but I'll point you to this video which breaks down two-handed bass in 5ths a little bit:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YZO_A6QJ1A[/youtube]

So if this is the kind of bass you're thinking of, then the DBR tuning isn't necessary to achieve that.

Second: you didn't mention what kind of pickup you have. The DBR tuning doesn't work very well with the Stickup because there's only one pole piece on the lowest melody string. This cuts down on crosstalk betweent he two string groups on that pickup but is also means that the string in that position won't have the tonal character of the lowest overall string, so you won't have the tone continuity from string 5 to string 6 that makes the tuning work so well for 4ths and 5ths bass.

A suggestion

If the melody strings are higher than you would like, try a lower tuning like Baritone Melody first. This requires a much less radical setup change and still gives you plenty of high range for melodies and chords.

Hope that helps!

Hello and thank you Greg!
My 10 has a stickup. I'll give Baritone Melody a run,,,,,

You're welcome, andy.

This conversion is very easy. You can see what the intonation profile will look like based on this photo:



The Classic melody intonation is on string 1-5 and the Baritone Melody is on 2-6. Assuming you are using the same overall gauge of strings, just slide the blocks to match in the new spots, so 1 will look like 2, 2 like 3, 3 like 4, 4 like 5 and the new 5 will be slightly further out.

All my recordings on 10-string, with the exception of the Here, There and Everywhere Railboard video, which was in Emmett's new Raised Matched Reciprocal tuning have been in Baritone Melody. It's a great tuning!