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 How Many Stick players actually play with a drummer? 
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Post How Many Stick players actually play with a drummer?
The thread on groove was very tasty and interesting, however, I am curious how many Stick players either play with a drummer (kit) or hand percussionists on a regular basis. Does that have an effect on your groove?


Wed Feb 04, 2015 9:13 pm
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Post How Many Stick players actually play with a drummer?
I do. The difference is in the listening. We listen to each other to play tight. Some song intros may be played a little less rubato. It's easier to play with a drummer. Nice to have a timebase to lean on, instead of generating it yourself.


Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:51 pm
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Post Re: How Many Stick players actually play with a drummer?
in answer to this (and Food for Thought): i play with a drummer. the Stick is a percussion instrument. when he first heard me (4 years ago? when i REALLY didn't have a clue?), he said, "You GET it!" i still don't know what i'm doing, but i think i'm catching on. anyway, we could find "one" if it were buried in the backyard in a lead box...

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Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:41 am
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Post Re: How Many Stick players actually play with a drummer?
It'd definitely a good experience to go between playing without a drummer, to playing with one and then back and forth between.

Depending on how you want to play, it can be easy to move away from groovier playing when you don't have a drummer in your life. Time for a bromance....? :lol:

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Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:17 am
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Post Re: How Many Stick players actually play with a drummer?
I've played with dozens of different drummers over the years. Most had a truly distinctive personality, so it's hard to be general in describing what this does for your playing and how you can adjust your playing to make things work better.

I want to mention two of them, in the context of improvisation, which can be groove oriented or abstract.

The most recent I've spent a lot of time with is Brian Caputo (AZUL). Brian has an amazing groove but it's very "loose" in terms of what he plays around it. I find with Brian the best thing I can be is "super clear" in the bass and rhythm parts I come up with, so that he can relate to what I'm doing. If I try to relate to what he's doing too much, he's already changed it by the time I figure it out. It's better to be "feeling it" with Brian than "thinking it".

I like how this piece developed in this regard. You cans hear the interaction I'm talking about.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBhdeP0ntM4[/youtube]

Jan Wolfkamp, in the Greg Howard Band was the opposite. He really builds his grooves up, literally, using loops, but also just layering his own parts. So it's quite easy to hear what he's doing, and to play along with him. He likes to have lots of things going on, and they all work really well, so I tend to do better when I "do less" playing with him.

A good "bad example"

Here's a version of "Blues for Ayman" with the band, from our first gig, so we didn't really know each other yet. It starts after the first head because when I originally posted this YouTube limited videos to 10 minutes. When we start out, I'm probably doing too much considering what's going on. Eventually things settle down. Check out the way it develops and how everyone is listening to each other. I'm really happy with the way the improv works out on this:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t94HouPl2Dc[/youtube]

This last point is the general rule of thumb for playing with a drummer. do less. less than you would when playing solo, because when you play solo, you are the drummer.

Think about how the Stick sounds. percussive attack, followed by a long sustain. It's basically doing what the bass and bass drum are doing all by itself. So you have to be really precise in your timing so as not to muddy the low end too much with flammy attacks.

I also suggest trimming your treble way back on your accompaniment hand, since that's where the clicky sounds of tapping come from. and perhaps some fast attack compression, as well.

Uber drummers

I've also played quite a bit with Carter Beauford over the years. You can do anything and Carter makes it sound great... seriously... anything at all, and Carter just makes it amazing...

Johnny Gilmore was probably the easiest to "play with". He could hear everything instantly and clarify the groove on the spot. sorry I don't have any video of Johnny. He died in a fire a few years ago...

http://greghoward.bandcamp.com/track/in-your-face

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Listen for the bass drum. Become one with the bass drum...

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Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:30 am
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Post Re: How Many Stick players actually play with a drummer?
Greg, awesome post!! This is why your groove and pocket is so developed and deep!!


Thu Feb 05, 2015 7:40 am
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Post Re: How Many Stick players actually play with a drummer?
2 of the proyects I play with have drummers and I gotta say that playing with a good drummer is great, specially if you have good "rhythm chemistry" with him...

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Thu Feb 05, 2015 8:07 am
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Post Re: How Many Stick players actually play with a drummer?
greg wrote:
Last word

Listen for the bass drum. Become one with the bass drum...


I listen much more to the hihat and I prefer to locate myself on the same side as where the drummer has the hihat depending on if he´s left or right handed. I don´t care as much for the bass drum myself. Hihat. That´s where the drummer has his/her groove. Is my opinion.

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Thu Feb 05, 2015 9:04 am
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Post Re: How Many Stick players actually play with a drummer?
Jan Hellman wrote:
greg wrote:
Last word

Listen for the bass drum. Become one with the bass drum...


I listen much more to the hihat and I prefer to locate myself on the same side as where the drummer has the hihat depending on if he´s left or right handed. I don´t care as much for the bass drum myself. Hihat. That´s where the drummer has his/her groove. Is my opinion.


I was speaking in terms of sonics. The attack of the Stick and the attack of the bass drum are too similar for us to get away with being sloppy around the bass drum.. Plucked bass guitar is much more forgiving in this regard...

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Thu Feb 05, 2015 9:11 am
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Post Re: How Many Stick players actually play with a drummer?
rclere wrote:
Greg, awesome post!! This is why your groove and pocket is so developed and deep!!

Randy, you re very kind. I don't know if I have a deep groove or not, but I appreciate that you like my music...

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Thu Feb 05, 2015 9:15 am
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