I'm a bass player who wants to learn to play stick. I've been doing a lot of research, including this site, and have decided to ask for some opinions on what instrument I should be looking for. I want to use the stick in a latin/flamenco duo/trio, a progressive rock/improv trio, and as a solo instrument. Pretty minimal on the processing end. So far, these are my thoughts:

10-string. Stickup. Baritone Melody? Medium Guage strings?

So far as I can tell, the choice of wood does not change the tone greatly, therefore I wanted to pick something with good visibility, especially in lower light settings. I was thinking Rosewood or Paduak with light colored inlays or lines. Any recommendations?

Does anyone have an opinion on older ironwood instruments and how they compare to the newer models? I'm really trying to stay under $1500 if I can. But I want to like my instrument enough to keep it. So I'd be willing to go to $2500 if I have to. How about buying refurbished from Stick Enterprises? Anyone had experience with that?

Sorry for the long post, but I'd really like to clear some things up before I take the next step. Any and all opinions will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Jon

Sounds like you've done some homework! As far as referbished Sticks from SE go they're few and far between because the resale is so good on e-bay. What a lot of people do are buy used and send them to SE for Emmett to give the "once over". They come back as good as or better then new.

If you get an older stick with a non adjustable bridge your tuning options are very limited because their intonation is set up for standard Stick tuning. Emmett CAN tweak this a little.

Old Sticks are still great instruments however if you get one you should send it to SE for adjustment and chances are Emmett will suggest he install and trussrod. Action is ALL important so this is a must.

Because resale is so high it's difficult to find a Stick in the $1500. range. Most of us who have bought use do so because we don't want to wait 14 months for a new one. THAT being said, still be careful if you're looking at e-bay. There are people asking OVER new price for a non adjustable old Stick. Still great instruments but IMO not worth the price they're asking. Not when you can get a brand new fully adjustable stick for that same price if you're willing to wait.

Anyway ... good luck in which ever route you decide to take and welcome to the Stick community.

Hi jon,
The best advise that I can give you is just buy a Stick. Any Stick you can afford and
be willing to send it in if it needs the work.
Use it as your practice "getting your feet wet" instrument.

There is a "this is not what I expected" adjustment period because the Stick
is very different from Guitar or bass.

I have seen competent musicians become clueless once they are strapped in
and others just start creating patterns from the first tap . Perhaps it will click for you right off.

Ray is right about some of the Sticks on eBay being too expensive. I made the mistake
once believing that the two rods going down the back of the Stick was an adjustable
truss. It's not; rather it is a stabilizing system that Emmett used to use. I think the adjustable
truss is the most critical factor; with that installed an older instrument can go from unplayable to perfect with just a slight turn of the wrench It might need more than
that though.

If you can find a fair priced instrument or even a damaged one cheap have it shipped from the seller to S.E. That way when you get it will be as good as it can be

Then if you get hooked have your dream Stick built and sell your old one at
the very last possible moment. Or not

As far as tuning it is very subjective. I changed things a lot in the beginning but settled
on Baritone Melody. The bass side is still the same as the Classic tuning so all
the chords are there. Just the melody side is brought down into the baritone range.
Check out Greg Howard (he uses the BM tuning) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w99q5zLpxs4

Let us know how it goes.
jrj

Jon-My refurbished ironwood #1212 sounds and plays better thah new-new p.u.,better isolation/crosstalk between string sets,adjustable trussrod. When I sent it to S.E., I wanted a lot of work(adjustable bridge, PASV-4) Emmett would do it, but I decided to trade it in towards a new one. Then I realized I couldn't live w/out a Stick for 10 mos., so I had it refurbished, determined to sell it when my new one was in my possesion. That lasted about 2 weeks. Why have one Stick when you can have TWO? (Refurbishing took 3 weeks). But I WAS going to sell it for the total of trade-in plus the work needed, to some deserving player. That would be about $1500-1700. That would have covered cord, new foam in the case, etc. Again, I just wanted someone to have a Stick all ready to roar. I hope you can find someone like-minded out there that's just trying to get their money back. Sticks hold their value...but you don't have to get REAMED!

As a Bassist/Stickist, welcome to the fold and best of luck, Marty

P.S. Bari Melody 1/2 step down (think octaves on the center strings), heavy melody,med. bass. I really like the lower range!

Hi Jon,

Just wanted to chime in with the comments above. I've been using an Ironwood Stick exclusively since I started playing in 1999. If you can get a refurbished one from Stick Enterprises these days, I would highly recommend it. Another option is to keep a very close eye on the stickist.com for sale section and be ready to pounce. Older instruments do come up now and then (even Polycarbs).

There's a tuning poll running at the moment with some pros and cons listed. I prefer Classic tuning, but the Stick does have an amazing sound in the "midrange", and Baritone Melody makes full use of that register.

Once you decide on a tuning, you will only need the instrument set up correctly once, and you may never have to do anything other than adjust the truss rod. JRJ is right - that adjustable truss rod is absolutely crucial. You sound like an active musician, which makes this point even more relevant. A new Stickup might also be a consideration if the instrument is very old.

An important tactile difference on older Sticks is the use of jumbo guitar frets instead of the "rails" which are standard these days. General opinion is that the jumbos are a bit less forgiving but still easy to play. The rails seem to become a more distinct advantage in the higher register, which I found to be the case when I had a quick noodle on Bob Culbertson's Alto in November.

Good luck,
Andy

Hi Jon,


10-string. Stickup. Baritone Melody. Medium Gauge strings.

Very good idea for latin stuff. Here's ALMOST how this combination can sound (active pickup).

http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=Hz7CJ0AaLAU

The baritone melody tuning is excellent for bossa.

Hope this helps.

O.

Thank you all. Please keep it coming. I MAY have found a really good deal on a used mahogany stick. I've contacted the seller and am waiting for the Stick's Number and to see whether he'll ship it or not. This forum has been immensely instrumental in my decision. I look forward to becoming a more active member in the Stick community.

I would like to add one small point. I have a 10-string that I sent back home for a full retrofit. It came back as a wonderful and very playable instrument. I have experimented with tunings, going from Classic to Baritone and now back to Classic. What I found was that I really want both the high string of Classic and the low string of Baritone. That led me to order a 12-string. I recommend that you not limit your search to just 10-strings, the Grand Stick has so many possibilities. But, any Stick is a great place to start and you won't lose much, if any, money if you change your mind in the future.

-Eric

Hi Jon-

I am in the process of listing my 10 string rosewood stick, so if the other one you are looking at doesn't work out, you may want to consider it. It is a modern stick, with rails and PASV-4 passive Villex quad pickup, as well as the Roland GK-3 MIDI pickup. Everything is in excellent shape. The firm price I'm listing it at is $2,550. I should have it posted with pictures on the forum this morning.

Mike

This is a fun decision that I remember agonizing about as well when getting my first stick.

I have a Rosewood 10 string w/PASV-4 and dot inlays (pearl). In retrospect, I wish it had the regular Stickup and a lighter color wood, with linear inlays. It's not that it isn't a beautiful instrument, but aesthetically I find some of the other colors nicer, and functionally, I feel the linear inlays would have helped me. The PASV4 definitely has a less acoustic vibe than the stickup, and for solo playing, it seems you might prefer the Stickup.

I also recommend light gauge strings for beginners; I ordered medium gauge but then switched to light gauge and found the bass strings much easier to play. I use Matched Reciprocal tuning, and find this a pretty flexible, relatively easy to learn tuning. Have only used the straight 4ths on my SB8 otherwise.

I would say, though, just about any Stick will open up a whole new musical world.

Let us know what you come up with....