Stickist.com
https://www.stickist.com/

Fingers get Sor
https://www.stickist.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14993		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Markussz [ Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Fingers get Sor
I'm starting to practice the Studies of Fernando Sor In the forward to the book, the editor David Grimes stated that some of the fingerings needed to be changed based on developments in classical guitar technique. When I read one section, I was reminded of the ongoing argument of using 3 fingers vs. 4 on the stick. I think Sor used all 4, but he may have underutilized his pinky, to the point of having frequent shifts in position to avoid its use. Interesting stuff.

"Sor's concept of technique involved using the stronger fingers whenever possible, even when that entailed excessive shifting, whereas most contemporary players stress the importance of developing all of the fingers to their utmost capability and reducing the frequency of shifting."

New fingerings, less sore fingers when playing Sor, making your music soar
Author:  Captain Strings [ Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fingers get Sor
If ya got 'em, use 'em. If they're weak, make 'em strong. That's my take.
Author:  paigan0 [ Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fingers get Sor
Markussz wrote:
[...]"Sor's concept of technique involved using the stronger fingers whenever possible, even when that entailed excessive shifting, whereas most contemporary players stress the importance of developing all of the fingers to their utmost capability and reducing the frequency of shifting."

I'd hate to channel Greg Howard but that sounds a lot like "Hand Movement." Using your strong fingers and moving your hand a lot versus using all the fingers and not moving so much.

Captain Strings wrote:
If ya got 'em, use 'em. If they're weak, make 'em strong. That's my take.
I'd have to agree. But there's something to be said for efficiency and economy of movement and a bunch of other things that I frankly don't really (consciously) care much about. Just play the damn thing and keep playing when you're sore and you won't be so sore next time. That's my approach to all my instruments and I hate when I fall off the wagon and don't play one of the babies for a while.

I admit that I have not done DEEP THINKING about my technique and improving it (which is necessary to taking your stuff to higher levels.) I'm just a hack and have found that enthusiasm will bring chops if you just play enough and keep an open mind to accidentally learning a couple of things. And don't mind just fumbling around in the dark until you get it. Perseverance and enthusiasm!
Author:  AnDroiD [ Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fingers get Sor
paigan0 wrote:
I admit that I have not done DEEP THINKING about my technique and improving it (which is necessary to taking your stuff to higher levels.) I'm just a hack and have found that enthusiasm will bring chops if you just play enough and keep an open mind to accidentally learning a couple of things. And don't mind just fumbling around in the dark until you get it. Perseverance and enthusiasm!

That about sums it for me ditto.
Author:  greg [ Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fingers get Sor
paigan0 wrote:
Markussz wrote:
[...]"Sor's concept of technique involved using the stronger fingers whenever possible, even when that entailed excessive shifting, whereas most contemporary players stress the importance of developing all of the fingers to their utmost capability and reducing the frequency of shifting."

I'd hate to channel Greg Howard but that sounds a lot like "Hand Movement." Using your strong fingers and moving your hand a lot versus using all the fingers and not moving so much.

Captain Strings wrote:
If ya got 'em, use 'em. If they're weak, make 'em strong. That's my take.
I'd have to agree. But there's something to be said for efficiency and economy of movement and a bunch of other things that I frankly don't really (consciously) care much about. Just play the damn thing and keep playing when you're sore and you won't be so sore next time. That's my approach to all my instruments and I hate when I fall off the wagon and don't play one of the babies for a while.

I admit that I have not done DEEP THINKING about my technique and improving it (which is necessary to taking your stuff to higher levels.) I'm just a hack and have found that enthusiasm will bring chops if you just play enough and keep an open mind to accidentally learning a couple of things. And don't mind just fumbling around in the dark until you get it. Perseverance and enthusiasm!


Interesting discussion...

Here's my take. There's no such thing as excessive shifting when it comes to The Stick, just excessive finger movement. The shifting creates the timing energy as much as the fingers do. Without shifting, which I do indeed call hand movement, the fingers have to do ALL the work. with shifting , they only have to do a little.

Using hand movement comes naturally for some, for others, especially people who have played guitar or bass for a long time, it takes some practice. I liken it to learning a foreign language. If you think about the new language as a translation of the old, you will never really master it. Learn it for what it is, a different language. Such are Stick and guitar...

If you are intrugued by this idea, and you have not already watched the Basic Free Hands Technique videos, now free on YouTube, I encourage you to check them out.
Author:  Lee Vatip [ Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fingers get Sor
There is this major difference between guitar and Stick
As players, we are multi tasking, each hand doing separate independent or connected ideas.
In that respect, to have fingerings that are more automatic and efficient will make this musical task easier to accomplish . A consistent , one finger per fret concept, will require less conscious thinking, less stretching, less hand movement.
Physicality is very important. I give each finger a fret assignment. My subconscious relays a message as to which digit taps down on its assigned fret elevating efficiency.
These are my conclusions. Others are respected
Steve Adelson
Author:  AnDroiD [ Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fingers get Sor
I have to add a thank you to all the teachers of Stick out there showing various ways to approach the instrument. I have incorporated things from Emmett, Greg, Bob, and Steve in my approach...oh, and definitely a lot of Tony and Nick also! (I am, and always will be, a bassist). I also had my share of teachers on upright bass that helped me with navigating the 5ths bass (movement!) and guitarist teachers from electric bass (lots of chord theory). Hail All the Pioneers of this New Expression of Fingers on Strings! Independence Day! (one day early)
Author:  bizon [ Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Fingers get Sor
With guitar and bass, the four left-handed fretting fingers (if you're right handed) mark the note, and the right hand then produces it. There are a few exceptions, of course, but for the most part that is the case. A finger-style bass player, more often than not, will use only the index and middle fingers of the right hand to produce the note. Occasionally, he/she will use the ring finger, and very rarely (if ever) the pinky. With finger-style/classical guitar, the same picking/plucking method applies except there is the inclusion of the right thumb, and the ring finger is used more. Again, the pinky finger is very rarely used.

In the end, it boils down to economy of motion. The pinky is not as strong or dextrous as the other digits, and it's not as long, and that's why it's really not used.

The Stick is unique in that the fretting hand also produces the note, but why wouldn't the same economy of motion rules apply?

I'm definitely finding myself gravitating more and more to Greg's three-finger playing method because it just makes sense.
Author:  paigan0 [ Sat Jul 04, 2020 10:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fingers get Sor
paigan0 wrote:
I'd hate to channel Greg Howard

By the way, when I say "I'd hate to channel Greg Howard," it's because he can explain it better than me, and I don't want to put (the wrong) words in his mouth--not that I'd mind channeling his immortal soul through my black magic seance or however one does such channeling...the metaphor breaks down because I don't know how the literally channeling stuff happens, but what I mean is "to speak how he would speak." The trick is to play how he would play, which is much more difficult. ;)
Author:  Jayesskerr [ Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fingers get Sor
This is me - I put an end to my "guitar/bass" mindset on Stick a while ago. Dumped the comparisons and just play Stick when I play Stick, guitar when I play guitar, bass when I play bass, etc. Life is a lot easier when you just do one thing at a time.

In regards to Sor on guitar there are definitely some "Standard" arrangements, but at the end of the day - physiology, ability and of course, tone etc will dictate the path of the arrangement. And of course there are lots of different reasons to play Sor; technical exercise, performance, reading, etc etc

I guess if you are going to play it on Stick, pick the prettiest one you can find and do your best, I can't wait to hear it. :D
Page 1 of 2 All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/