I've been investigating touch instruments for a while now and have to admit being dual-minded. I love the versatility and playability. As a pianist and organist (besides dabbling in conventional guitar), it just makes sense to me. And, as someone who prefers playing solo, I like the idea of not just accompaniment (bass side, that is), but good, playable accompaniment achieved in a more natural fashion than on a regular guitar.

But, and it's a big but ... while I hear a perfect fit with jazz and various kinds of traditional music, and while the instrument seems to be a really, really good bass, it seems a bit lifeless on the guitar side. One of the things that makes great guitar playing great is dynamics, and that includes instrument and (if electric) amp dynamics. I don't hear a lot of dynamics in the music I've heard to-date, and it's hard not to attribute it to inherent physical limitations in tapping. In turn, that means less response from a good amp.

I don't mean to imply that the more stellar players aren't playing as dynamically as possible so much as the instrument itself is limited. This comes across really strongly when I hear emulated (and largely emasculated) distortion tones, false ice-pick tones, octave effects, etc. The instrument does, of course, lend itself to certain techniques, notably bends, slides, and others. Still, blues and rock are hard to find, and good blues and rock even harder. The instrument, the issues I've mentioned aside, would otherwise seem IDEAL for blues, in fact. Imagine what a solo player like John Lee Hooker might have done with one.

Is this fundamentally a jazz and balladic instrument? Alternatively, more of a midi controller (with all the limitations and problems that entails) than instrument itself when pushed beyond its boundaries?

Bill

I agree with you in some ways.

The stick does have its limitations, as does any instrument, and i think something Emmet and Greg have all tried to point out is that it is not a replacement for any instrument. It is merely a very very snazzy alternative with new possibilities.
I think it can be used in any genre, with different roles or as the lead instrument, but you are right in saying that it is fantastic for jazz and ballads. If you want to see it in a classical setting, check out Heartstrings AND Bob Culbertson.
So yes it is not better than guitar in all circumstances, but that does not make it less of an instrument or obviously limited. A guitar could not replace a tuba in all places, but that doesn't mean guitars are fantastic instruments.

I think the stick seams like a one instrument fits all, just because it is so different and immediately opens doors. We just need to learn where its place is.

Hmmmm... My first reaction is a chuckle. Why? Well I think guys like Emmett and Steve Adelson have worked very hard to play jazz on the stick (for a lot longer than I have). It's nice to hear that it sounds well suited (to your ears) for jazz, but I think it is only due to their artistry. The stick is such a young instrument, and therefore is much more of a blank slate than other instruments (guitar).
I think that many of the players you have heard, have been drawn to play music in their own ways. But, that does not mean that it is any less suitable for other styles. Rock guitar really isn't my thing so I'm not sure where to steer you to hear more "rock guitar" like playing on a stick except for maybe Gordian Knot.

When I first started playing the Stick 8 years ago I searched out jazz stick players. I found Emmett and Steve A. 8 years latter it seems it is a "jazz" instrument. GOOD JOB GUYS.

Brett

Hi Bill,

The Stick simply offers a different way of saying the same things. It can inspire new ideas and frustrate you in equal amounts, but in the end music is music. Also, I personally find the melody side of the instrument very expressive.

Cheers,
Andy

As a stick player (alto) of only a few months who is predominently interested in playing rock, in my practice sessions I'm frequently faced with the same question.

The answer I've arrived at so far is that one must be prepared to explore different idioms to produce sounds that come relatively easily to rock guitarists.

For example, while the stick may not lend itself immediately to 'Metallica-style' chugging power-chords, I'm guessing that if I make further progress with 'Culbertson-style' strumming this could give a credible effect.

Conversely, some things are of course possible on the stick that would be much harder on guitar. Simple examples: it's easy to alternate very rapidly between fifth and fourth diads in the left and right hands respectively and with the inverted fifths tuning on the bass side, fifths, sixths and seventh are easily accessible without a stretch.

Perhaps rock idioms for the stick have yet to be developed (or at the very least spelled out to the point where a novice like me can readily grasp them) but this does give the exciting challenge of finding one's own individual musical path.

It would certainly be great to see more videos of rock playing on the stick. My personal favourites are:

[YouTube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6rt1XaGmzs&feature=PlayList&p=D8F74D5F6D7BCA43&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=58[/YouTube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_tWt6HIolU[/youtube]

which certainly demonstrate that the stick is capable of both expression and attitude in a rock context.

In any event, I think there's plently of space for a 'Hendrix of stick' to take the instrument in new directions, rock or otherwise.

Jerry.

Long scale.
Really low string tension.

Guitars with their shorter scale have a lot more string tension than the Sticks. Also a sorter vibrating length which is gonna give you an overall tighter sound when you crank up the gain.

Also when string tension gets that high, the wood actually matters in affecting the tone. With the Sticks, the string tension is so low that 90% of your Stick sound is gonna come from your pickup.

You could possibly try modeling it through other gear but if you're wanting a warm hard drive not sure how close you'll get.

I share your frustration bud. If it helps, the ACTV block comes closer than the other two. Hell, call SE and talk to them. Never know, he might be able to come up with something new for you.

Good Luck,

Tritone

I appreciate the thoughtful responses.

I've heard most of what's available from Heartstrings and Bob C. Unbelievable skill (particularly Bob, not to minimize the skills of the former), though neither is the type of music I normally listen to.

On the topic of Jazz and guitar, the most common sound is electric hollow body played clean. Touch instruments just nail that sound and I'm sure that Steve Adelson (incredible tone), et al, have indeed worked hard at it, but I hear the basic sound underlying attempts at other sounds as well. Just as in the conventional guitar world, emulation and transformation only goes so far. It seems the instrument has a native, or characteristic sound. I'm unsure whether it due to the aspects Tritone mentions or other factors, but it is there.

Steve Adelson, in fact, stands out in my mind as perhaps the most successful at injecting dynamics into touch instrument play, bar none. (Some might argue for others like Trey Gunn, but his music is a bit far afield for me).

Andy, the question wasn't one of expressiveness - I can reel off a list of highly-expressive players without even thinking about it - it's whether the limitations of attack limit the genres without resorting to artificialities. I do understand the point about playing in new ways, however.

Tritone - you got the drift of my question perfectly. Thanks for the comments on the physical aspects of the instrument (tension, string length, wood, pickups, etc.). Attack and drive are it. So how do you achieve a true driven sound without the ability to deliver a wide attack range on a note-to-note basis? Unless the answer is to play in hybrid fashion, I guess. Low action would seem to mitigate against that to a degree, though.

Terrific answers all. Thanks for the perspective.

Interesting topic! I just received my Stick on Friday evening, but I think I know what people are saying about the instrument lending itself to certain styles and not others.

However, I must add that if you look at the guitar for instance, it was strictly a classical instrument for years and years. It wasn't until players began to explore it's abilities that the guitar really broke out into what it is today. The Stick is still so new. I come from a Progressive Rock background, and I really think the Stick is going to lend itself perfectly there. The only limitation is going to be me.
I'm going to study jazz on the Stick for now, but when my ability and knowledge are there, I'm going to do my best to explore this instrument. I'm more of a band setting musician, and my goal is to introduce it into that setting when I get out of the Army. With the right setting, I think the Stick can really go anywhere.

Great thread. I've been thinking about this topic for along time, but i couldn't think of a way to explain it without seeming to diss people. A lot of the content on youtube seems to be "incredible-chops-jazz" or "over-effected-noodling". Although i can appreciate the art and musicianship of both categories, and i'm very interested in tapping in general, there needs to be a bigger breakthrough.

I think it's just a matter of getting the instrument into more people's hands, in order to open the amount of experimentation. The price and availability are the major limiting factors in getting people to use this new method of making music.

Emmett needs to come up with a way to mass produce.

The way to not come across as attacking people is to be sincere.

I am genuinely interested in the instrument. Had I to describe where I am in the process, it would be reaching for understanding. I have little choice but to make comparisons to what I already know. I can make conceptual leaps, but don't see anything revolutionary in the musical sound. I do in the playing position - particularly the crossed, vertical hands. The interaction between the bass and guitar sides is also fascinating, depending on tuning and string set-up, of course.

I've chased down the midi path in the past. I don't want to repeat that, as I found it rather sterile in the end. That's not to say it doesn't have a role. Midi sounds very natural when the envelope characteristics of the trigger align with the patch. Logically, a touch instrument should make an excellent controller for piano or any number of hammered instruments, though I don't know how far it would go, not having looked at a tap's attack and transient characteristics. Interestingly, I have heard tap-based music using piano patches that sounded superb. The organ patches I've heard have not, which makes sense to me - again, the envelope characteristics are entirely different.

I wouldn't expect a good match to a distorted guitar patch, which could account for the lifelessness of some of the rock music I've heard. (You might LIKE the sound, of course, but that's not what I'm trying to get at.) You could overdrive the amp input to get a natural distortion sound, but unless you had an overdrive unit highly sensitive to a limited attack range, it might just result in an "undynamic" sound. It should be possible to produce such a unit, though.