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 Questions and Comparisons for a complete newb 
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Post Questions and Comparisons for a complete newb
Hello all.

My background is computer programming and other nerdy past times -- not music.. In fact, I haven't done anything musical since middle school (well over 20 years ago) and I am interested.

I have always wanted to play an instrument of some sort and I find its about time.. The style, sound and versatility of the stick really appeals to me.

I'm worried though that for a complete novice like myself who has virtually zero training and experience, I might be trying to bite off more than I can chew.. Is the Chapman stick something that I can pickup as a novice and learn or would I be better served getting a classical guitar and playing on that first?

I posted basically this exact question on my blog and got a comment from Traktor Topaz almost immediately about his Megatar.

He had this to say;

Quote:
you could get a Mobius Megatar touchstyle guitar which would have some features not available on the roughly-equivalent 12-string Chapman Grand Stick. ... your learning speed approximately double that of learning the pat-your-head and rub-your-tummy chapman tunings which are different on the bass and the melody strings.


Would the Megatar be something better for a novice such as myself? He made a good point in that the sticks do seem very expensive.. However I'm a firm believer in that you get what you pay for.. (Also note I'm NOT trying to start a holy war here.. and I fully understand that Traktor was trying to be a good salesman.. if a little heavy handed..)

Your advice and opinions are welcome.. Thanks every one.

-pal


Tue Jul 08, 2008 6:45 pm
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Post Re: Questions and Comparisons for a complete newb
Hi Pal,

Our friend Qua Veda had a similar experience when he was considering learning a musical instrument. Read about his journey here:

http://www.stick.com/articles/veda_experience/

Butterflies are free... (in the swallowtail sense! ;-)


Take care,

Paul

http://www.myspace.com/paulwaltersstick


Tue Jul 08, 2008 7:11 pm
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Post Re: Questions and Comparisons for a complete newb
Hi Palamedes, One of the great advantages of the Stick is the community. Read the posts
and see if that would be something you would want to be part of. I personally have found
and i know I can speak for many that the people here are extremely helpful and there
are top players who you can ask questions. Thats important because the Stick is not
easy but it's not impossible either and for mysterious reasons as you progress there
is some strange gratification that for a lot of us keeps you going in fact sometime it's hard to put
the thing down :twisted:

My sugestion as far as Megatar goes is to buy a Stick. If you Get
a Megatar you will always wonder "what if..." I wouldn't mind having one (a Megatar) just to see
what there like but it's the other way around. I am in no hurry. As far as being "easier"
It is still essentially the same instrument that Emmett created and with a Stick you
can change the string configuration or tuning to any setup you want. I have tried a number of them
and non was "easier". In fact i think that some of those uncrossed setups that are common
on other tapping instruments are actually harder
and ultimately limiting in range; IMHO. All that being said the Megatar can do some cool stuff.
And even if you go that route you are still welcome here. My best advise would be
get an instrument and find a teacher, listen to half of what he or she says (if the teacher is female listen a bit more) for the rest trust your intuition.
Best to you.
^j^
. ~

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Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:09 pm
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Post Re: Questions and Comparisons for a complete newb
Hello Palamedes

Just look at the megatar - poor ugly thing... :-(

Olivier


Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:55 pm
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Post Re: Questions and Comparisons for a complete newb
@ Olivier : :mrgreen: ;)

Hey Pal : I think Traktor just came with a "concept" he stole from Emmett Chapman. Basically, for me, there's no difference, at first sight, between the two instruments. I think you'll unfortunately discover the differences if you buy a Megatar first then switch to a Stick :roll: (as most of people do, never the inverse ;) )
To me, the most important thing to consider is the sound (hey, we're talking about music, isn't it?). Try to pick up some great recordings from both instruments (Greg Howard's, Pascal Gutman's, Bob Culbertson's, Jim Lampi's to name a few for the Stick... For the Megatar... errrh, I don't know... :oops: I think yo can hear some videos from Traktor on Youtube) and just compare the sound of the low, mid and high frequencies. The difference is just obvious, at least to my ears and to most of us on this board :D . As a complete newbie to the Stick and to the music, it's what you've to consider!
Another thing to consider : Stick Enterprise is always thinking to the next improvements for their instruments, they're always active trying to build and set up their instruments, and the staff there is very helpful if you've any question (just call them by phone, rather simple, isn't it?)
And just between us : I always consider the aggressive marketing policies as an admission of failure ;) (and Traktor's one is aggressive, you already pointed that : I never read such posts/comments from Emmett like the one's Traktor use to post on forums : Stick Enterprise don't need this kind of behaviour)

Feel free to post any question here about... anything you want! ;)

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Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:48 pm
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Post Re: Questions and Comparisons for a complete newb
http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=7Za0c8SPj0Q

Check this: does not sound too bad anyway hmmm ?

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Wed Jul 09, 2008 5:18 am
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Post Re: Questions and Comparisons for a complete newb
Welcome, Pal.

First, I would like to point out that there are Stick players in your region and you should be able to see one and try it out for yourself. As others have said, the Stick community is unlike anything out there. There are a few thousand of us and we always like to meet other Stick players and potential players.

Traktor is on this forum and he might chime in here. But, I don't agree with his opinion about the ease of learning the Stick vs. anything else. For me, the hard part of learning a non-standard instrument is information. How do I do this? How should I play that? What's the best way to play scales? What kind of amp does everyone use? Etc., etc. These questions appear here on the forum all the time. They are answered with patience, friendship, and an enthusiasm that is great.

As others have pointed out, there are lots of ways to tune a Stick. Take a look at this page:

http://www.stick.com/instruments/tunings/

Many of us experiment with tunings to find the one that is just right for us. I started on Classic, went to Baritone Melody, then back to Classic, and now I'm on Matched Reciprocal. Most of play with the crossed-hands approach as it has some advantages. However, there are several who play uncrossed and that's just fine. There are no religious-like battles among the community over what's the "correct" way to play a Stick.

The Stick has been manufactured for over 30 years. The new Stick I'm getting in a few months is very different and more advanced than the one I have that was made in 1987. Emmett and his daughter Grace are always thinking about ways to improve the instrument. And they both play them, too. There some wonderful videos of Emmett playing out there. Check this one out:

http://www.stick.com/onlinevideos/parallel_galaxy.html

Frankly, I want an instrument from a guy who can play like that! The fact that a musician and craftsman on Emmett's level will be setting up my new Stick is incredible. I am so looking forward to my new bamboo 12-string.

Any Stick you could find used would hold its value for a long time. You would not lose anything to try one out. Used ones pop up fairly often and the forum frequently helps new players decide if a used Stick is a good one and a good value.

If you should decide to get a Stick come back and let us know about it. We're always happy to see the newbie questions and help people get going. I was a newbie about 1.5 years ago and I'm still very much a beginner. This forum is essentially my Stick teacher and I would not be having as much fun and learning as much without it.

-Eric

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Wed Jul 09, 2008 5:35 am
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Post Re: Questions and Comparisons for a complete newb
For some reason, my reply did not post previously.
Some facts.... The Stick is a far superior instrument. In quality there is no comparison.
They are not the same instrument. The fact that Emmett builds the Stick with the dot markers (inlays) every five frets is very, very important for visual navigation. Not so on the Meg. This is often overlooked and an important crucial difference.
The Stick's trim body both horizontally and vertically is a major plus for ease of movement
The beveled edges on the Stick's fretboard are likewise a plus.
There's much more.
And don't forget that the Stick is built by the original designer of this concept, that he's a style and instrument inventor, a true luthier and a real player not a salesman

Steve Adelson
(author of Mel Bay's Stick method book/DVD)


Wed Jul 09, 2008 5:40 am
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Post Re: Questions and Comparisons for a complete newb
>>>you could get a Mobius Megatar touchstyle guitar which would have some features not available on the roughly-equivalent 12-string Chapman Grand Stick. ... your learning speed approximately double that of learning the pat-your-head and rub-your-tummy chapman tunings which are different on the bass and the melody strings.<<<


This is just wrong.. "Roughly equivalent Chapman Stick"????????? Ha!
The original is roughly equivalent?
Learning on a Meg twice as fast? You've got to be kidding. If you read my previous post, I would say quite the opposite for the reasons I stated.
Traktor always slants his comments to make the unsuspecting think his Meg is better. I only respond to make sure the curious consumer is truly informed.


Wed Jul 09, 2008 5:55 am
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Post Re: Questions and Comparisons for a complete newb
Palamedes wrote:

My background is computer programming and other nerdy past times -- not music.. In fact, I haven't done anything musical since middle school (well over 20 years ago) and I am interested.
______________________________________________________

I'm worried though that for a complete novice like myself who has virtually zero training and experience, I might be trying to bite off more than I can chew.. Is the Chapman stick something that I can pickup as a novice and learn or would I be better served getting a classical guitar and playing on that first?

-pal


Hello Pal: Hopefully this offers some insight regarding your first question, about facing a multi-string-tapping-stereo instrument without previous experience, coming from a computer background. The debate Stick vs. Megatar is a matter of opinions, better to be answered by those guys that have really tried playing both. I believe ES has more instruments released, and that has allowed them to wisely reinvest in R&D, constantly coming up with newer and better choices for the “tap player”.

Using a string based instrument to tap the notes on the fret-board requires some specific techniques that could be challenging if you have to also relearn some basic musical concepts (from tuning your instrument to learning about scales, chords, etc.).

If budget is a concern, my personal suggestion is that you build your “thirst” for playing a Stick by trying the technique first with an electric guitar; this will allow you to learn some basic concepts, it is an instrument that is simple to tap on, that is widely available, it can be purchased and sold relatively fast, and would help you develop some skills that will be very simple to transfer to the Stick. If you find the experience gratifying, you will quickly start craving to expand the tone range and jumping to a Stick would be just a natural step for you.

I base my suggestion in the fact that using a popular instrument to get you going with music will increase your chances to seek help/training/guidance locally, particularly through the first steps. While the Stick community is well deployed throughout the world, it may be difficult to find someone within the 20 miles radius to get you going.

Playing music is, for most people, one of the purest and greatest things that could happen to you. Whatever path you follow, I hope you keep your musical curiosity alive as the experience is very satisfying and greatly rewarding. If that path makes you become a Stick player, you’ll be definitively welcome.

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Wed Jul 09, 2008 5:59 am
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