It is currently Sat Apr 27, 2024 6:42 am




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
 Hi 
Author Message
Multiple Donor
Multiple Donor
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:43 am
Posts: 857
Post Re: Hi
Its an inside joke :D that business with the thirds tuning. Kinda absurd, arguing about it. That thread reminds me of a 17th century picture of classical guitarists beating each other because some preferred to pick with their nails, while others used the pads of their fingers, sans nails.

I saw your comments about the thirds tuning and couldn’t resist stirring the pot. Don’t take offense. Whatever works for you is all that matters.


Sat May 18, 2019 10:30 pm
Profile
Multiple Donor
Multiple Donor
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:43 am
Posts: 857
Post Re: Hi
Here's the painting that I mentioned regarding guitarists fighting, the nail users vs. the non nail users. I thought of that thread....then imagined stickists going at it over Thirds Tuning vs. Standard tuning.


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


Sat May 18, 2019 11:10 pm
Profile
Multiple Donor
Multiple Donor
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 3:07 pm
Posts: 7088
Location: Charlottesville, Virginia, USA
Post Re: Hi
Markussz wrote:
Its an inside joke :D that business with the thirds tuning. Kinda absurd, arguing about it. That thread reminds me of a 17th century picture of classical guitarists beating each other because some preferred to pick with their nails, while others used the pads of their fingers, sans nails.

I saw your comments about the thirds tuning and couldn’t resist stirring the pot. Don’t take offense. Whatever works for you is all that matters.


Emmett's hardware design supports all tunings within the limitatiions of string tension, so feel free to experiment. I've tried minor 3rds, major 3rds, mirrored 4ths, and some odd hybrids.

From a theoretical perspective, 3rds tunings offer some interesting chordal possibilities, but that's about it. Range reduction is the most obvious price you pay, but there is a tremendous advantage in terms of how musical patterns are revealed on both 4ths and 5ths.

On both 4ths and 5ths, the most common harmonic structures, namely diatonic and pentatonic, have a regularity that makes the pattern of the scale, and it's associated chords very easy to see and to execute.

In 4ths diatonic harmony has three notes per string, and pentatonic has two, and in 5ths diatonic harmony has four notes per string and pentatonic has three.

4ths diatonically (shown in C), you can see the pattern very clearly, and it repeats every 7 strings, offsetting by one fret

Code:
| - | C | - | D | - | E |
| - | G | - | A | - | B |
| - | D | - | E | F | - |
| - | A | - | B | C | - |
| - | E | F | - | G | - |
| - | B | C | - | D | - |
| F | - | G | - | A | - |
| C | - | D | - | E | - |


inverted 5ths diatonically in C, you can see the pattern very clearly, and it repeats every 7 strings, offsetting by one fret

Code:
| - | C | - | D | - | E | F |
| - | G | - | A | - | B | C |
| - | D | - | E | F | - | G |
| - | A | - | B | C | - | D |
| - | E | F | - | G | - | A |
| - | B | C | - | D | - | E |
| F | - | G | - | A | - | B |
| C | - | D | - | E | F | - |



Maj 3rds in C, as you can see the patter repeats every 4th string, and sometimes you have three notes per string and sometimes 2

Code:
| - | A | - | B |
| E | F | - | G |
| C | - | D | - |
| - | A | - | B |
| E | F | - | G |
| C | - | D | - |



Min 3rds in C, as you can see the patter repeats every 5th string, and sometimes you have two notes per string and sometimes only one

Code:

| C | - | D |
| A | - | B |
| - | G | - |
| - | E | F |
| C | - | D |


I think it's the irregularity of the Major and minor 3rds that makes them less useful overall, especially for melodic work. To me there is nothing more satisfying than ripping around the board without having to think too much about the overall pattern. Perhaps it's just what I'm used to, but three notes per string is pretty spectacular.

One thing I do like about these two tunings is that each fret has a consistent group of lettered notes as you move across C, E, and G# for example are always on the same fret.

Maj 3rds for example:

Code:
| G#| A | A#| B |
| E | F | F#| G |
| C | C#| D | D#|
| G#| A | A#| B |
| E | F | F#| G |
| C | C#| D | D#|


So you could put an inlay mark across every 4th fret, and those marks would have the same trio of notes everywhere. The unfortunate thing is that they are not very well-related harmonically, neither are minor 3rds. So "real world" harmony doesn't fit the pattern nearly as well as the geometric division of the octave does...

To each his own. It costs you very little to experiment, and you may find something you really like. If you want to play melody 4ths and inverted 5ths, there are a lot of people who can help you get the most out of it.

_________________
Happy tapping, greg
Schedule an online Stick lesson


Sun May 19, 2019 1:39 pm
Profile My Photo Gallery
Contributor
Contributor
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:18 pm
Posts: 171
Location: UK
Post Re: Hi
I like that painting, and i note that they are actually using their instruments as weapons.

Yes, 3rds is somewhat weird. My own use for 3rds is very weird and it ends up being suitable :mrgreen:
My 3rds tuning in its Just Intonation form is alternating major and minor 3rds, so 2 strings across is a 5th.


Sun May 19, 2019 6:32 pm
Profile
Multiple Donor
Multiple Donor
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:43 am
Posts: 857
Post Re: Hi
Using a railboard as a weapon would inflict major injuries. Not so much with a classical guitar. Guess I never had any of those Pete Townshend urges.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=pe ... &FORM=VIRE


Sun May 19, 2019 7:38 pm
Profile
Artisan Contributor
Artisan Contributor
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:13 pm
Posts: 623
Post Re: Hi
greg wrote:
Markussz wrote:
Its an inside joke :D that business with the thirds tuning. Kinda absurd, arguing about it. That thread reminds me of a 17th century picture of classical guitarists beating each other because some preferred to pick with their nails, while others used the pads of their fingers, sans nails.

I saw your comments about the thirds tuning and couldn’t resist stirring the pot. Don’t take offense. Whatever works for you is all that matters.


Emmett's hardware design supports all tunings within the limitatiions of string tension, so feel free to experiment. I've tried minor 3rds, major 3rds, mirrored 4ths, and some odd hybrids.

From a theoretical perspective, 3rds tunings offer some interesting chordal possibilities, but that's about it. Range reduction is the most obvious price you pay, but there is a tremendous advantage in terms of how musical patterns are revealed on both 4ths and 5ths.

On both 4ths and 5ths, the most common harmonic structures, namely diatonic and pentatonic, have a regularity that makes the pattern of the scale, and it's associated chords very easy to see and to execute.

In 4ths diatonic harmony has three notes per string, and pentatonic has two, and in 5ths diatonic harmony has four notes per string and pentatonic has three.

4ths diatonically (shown in C), you can see the pattern very clearly, and it repeats every 7 strings, offsetting by one fret

Code:
| - | C | - | D | - | E |
| - | G | - | A | - | B |
| - | D | - | E | F | - |
| - | A | - | B | C | - |
| - | E | F | - | G | - |
| - | B | C | - | D | - |
| F | - | G | - | A | - |
| C | - | D | - | E | - |


inverted 5ths diatonically in C, you can see the pattern very clearly, and it repeats every 7 strings, offsetting by one fret

Code:
| - | C | - | D | - | E | F |
| - | G | - | A | - | B | C |
| - | D | - | E | F | - | G |
| - | A | - | B | C | - | D |
| - | E | F | - | G | - | A |
| - | B | C | - | D | - | E |
| F | - | G | - | A | - | B |
| C | - | D | - | E | F | - |



Maj 3rds in C, as you can see the patter repeats every 4th string, and sometimes you have three notes per string and sometimes 2

Code:
| - | A | - | B |
| E | F | - | G |
| C | - | D | - |
| - | A | - | B |
| E | F | - | G |
| C | - | D | - |



Min 3rds in C, as you can see the patter repeats every 5th string, and sometimes you have two notes per string and sometimes only one

Code:

| C | - | D |
| A | - | B |
| - | G | - |
| - | E | F |
| C | - | D |


I think it's the irregularity of the Major and minor 3rds that makes them less useful overall, especially for melodic work. To me there is nothing more satisfying than ripping around the board without having to think too much about the overall pattern. Perhaps it's just what I'm used to, but three notes per string is pretty spectacular.

One thing I do like about these two tunings is that each fret has a consistent group of lettered notes as you move across C, E, and G# for example are always on the same fret.

Maj 3rds for example:

Code:
| G#| A | A#| B |
| E | F | F#| G |
| C | C#| D | D#|
| G#| A | A#| B |
| E | F | F#| G |
| C | C#| D | D#|


So you could put an inlay mark across every 4th fret, and those marks would have the same trio of notes everywhere. The unfortunate thing is that they are not very well-related harmonically, neither are minor 3rds. So "real world" harmony doesn't fit the pattern nearly as well as the geometric division of the octave does...

To each his own. It costs you very little to experiment, and you may find something you really like. If you want to play melody 4ths and inverted 5ths, there are a lot of people who can help you get the most out of it.





...you just forgot the seconds:

mayor
| a | | b | c |
| g | | | |
| f | | | |
| | e | | |
| | d | | |
| | c | | |


and minor

| | | | | a | | b | c |
| | | | g | | | | |
| | | f | | | | | |
| | | e | | | | |
| | d | | | | |
| c | | | | | |


...hope it helps....


Mon May 20, 2019 12:32 pm
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 20 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

board3 Portal - based on phpBB3 Portal Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group. Designed by Vjacheslav Trushkin for Free Forums/DivisionCore.
Heavily modified by Stickist.com. Stickist.com is an authorized Chapman Stick® site. The Chapman Stick® and NS/Stick™ and their marks are federally registered trademarks exclusively licensed to Stick Enterprises, Inc., and are used on Stickist.com and NSstickist.com with SEI's permission.
Click here for more information.