Well, here are the reasons as it pertained to me; I am thinking that coming from a string instrument background has influenced my tuning pretty radically. What works for me might not be your thing! And yeah, I still have a very, very long way to go as far as learning how to better play and express myself on the instrument.

1) Scalar stuff. I know my scales really, really well. When tuned in 4ths, the scale fingerings are the same, just backwards. That means I can leverage what I already know. If I want to play an octave line on bass side and the melody side simultaneously, I can simply use the same fingering. I mean, sorting out a 4 note per string fingering, or the shifting required to play it 3 notes per string on the bass side it's really quite time consuming. Made worse if I want to harmonize a thing, mirrored 4ths simplifies the availability and location of notes for me, drastically reducing the learning curve. ie what I practice on the melody side works on the bass side, and vice versa. What I practice on bass or guitar helps my Stick playing, and vice versa. So scales are the same fingering, just "mirrored".

2) Intervals and chord construction. Why have different geometry for each side of the instrument? Why learn a completely different set of chords for the bass side when I could just use what I know already. Also, the chords available on the melody side are the same as those on the bass side. Again, learning curve drastically reduced and what I practice on once side of the instrument easily migrates to the other.

3) I like 10ths as much as the next guy, but I like playing major and minor 3rds on the bass side as chords, as well as 4ths. So to make a long story short, I can do this easily in mirrored 4ths, and cannot in 5ths. It bugs me to have that limitation, so I prefer to go with a tuning that enables closed voicing on the bass side. Don't worry, I can still play the wider interval chords too.

4) Reading. I believe in the language of music, and as such I spent a lot of money and time ion a formal music education as well as hours upon hours of gruelling practice. I tried to read stuff down using matched reciprocal, and while it is possible, why make it more difficult than it already is? Mirrored 4ths enables me to interpret a score much more closely than I could in a 5ths tuning. Reading in both clefs is easier in M4, and I benefit from regular daily reading practice. To me, reading is the key to hand independence, and probably THE most tangible way to organize studying towards developing that.

5) Ears. I have an excellent ear, I can transcribe anything. It comes from years of playing along to the record/CD/itune and then ear training practice and development in school, and then years of further practice and listening. Over that time, I've sort of developed this really fast "hunt and peck" thing where I hear some stuff, and my hands kind of no where to go intervallic ally. 5ths tuning kind of fucked that up for me, going in mirrored 4ths realigned how I understand things and made the Stick now a tangible thing for me to learn.

6) I wanted to sound different. Different tuning means different logic and approach, even if the difference is subtle. Greg and Bob are amazing, as are many others but I don't want to sound like them. I mean that with the utmost respect.

7) Did I mention learning curve? lol. M4 drastically reduced my learning time and allowed me to make some progress. It was utterly unacceptable for me to invest two years of hardcore practice, and then sound pretty much the same as I did if I sat there with my thumb up my ass thinking about new ways to beat my head against the wall trying to learn the simplest of pieces. Then after months of practicing the crap out of said pieces, they were prone to failure. Too much to keep track of in. 5ths/4ths so changing the tuning to M4 works with how I think, and the sacrifice is pretty minimal vs the gains.

There are some downsides, but I don't notice them really. Maybe it's that the results and efficiency outlay the shortcomings for what I want to do.

The big one, is that range on the bass side is cut down I have a low E as my first note as opposed to that thunderous Low C. Also, mirrored 4ths kind of works on a 10 string, but feels better suited to a 12 string. It might be because I never play my railboard in M4... Another thing to consider is that if you are a geometry/tabs only player and don't know the notes on the instrument - taking lessons or doing seminars and stuff might be whacky. I think Greg is pretty familiar with mirrored 4ths tuning, and like all tunings hahaha so he would probably be a good learning resource.

So to close, I have nothing bad to say about 5ths tunings, it's just that they didn't click for me is all. I just don't have time to totally start from scratch on something when a simple tuning change makes it possible for me to interface with the instrument. M4 is right for me, all I can say.

Thanks SO much... really appreciate your time in answering this for me.

I find that I can transcribe classical pieces more directly with mirrored 4ths. I consider the tuning to be the classical music tuning for Stick. I also like the sound of the chord shapes on the low side. It really needs a 12-string Stick to be fully functional. I tried it on a 10-string once and it really doesn’t work.

I play an SG12 with mirrored 4ths and I really like it. I’ve been inactive for a while and I’m thinking of trying a new type of mirrored 4ths when I can play again. I’ll post about it when I get there.

-Eric

Hey Eric!! Still really Digging the Bamboo Grand I bought from you years ago!! She really getting some good funk!

Pros: Working with scores is key to everything I do and fourths in the bass (mirrored, parallel) facilitate reading.

Cons: Other Stickists.

Mad Monk.

...tapping technique stays beyond the used tuning, that means it works with all tunings equally good or bad...
...choose one tuning and remain there...forever... at least for a longer time...
...reading skills are a result of experience, first sight reading, reading in general, is not a question of the tuning...
...cellos and violins are tuned in fifths, guitars in fourths, guess where are the better sight readers?....
...remember, tapping means all notes are freted, there are no open strings sounding, at least as long we're talking about tapping itself...
...cellos, guitars and violins have one tuning at once, the stick has two tuning at once...a genuine challenge, but also a part of the thrill...

Balt-a-sar, if you want to become a good reader with fifths in the bass, good luck to you. I spent several thousand hours learning Bach and Satie in fifths. I’m here to warn people not to make the same mistake, if they want to study piano-type harmonies and textures.
Not talking about just the bass-side fifths by themselves, which are not difficult to read. But putting fifths and fourths in different hands does make reading considerably more difficult.


Mad Monk.

What in particular did you find about the split tunings that made reading tricky?

I can fully imagine it would be, just curious to hear your specific thoughts.

Eric - Curious which version of the M4th tuning you use on the SG12 - "Piano" or "Guitar"?

Every interval has a different shape for each hand on the Stick in standard tuning. In fact there are two shapes for each hand, because you can choose to move either up or down the neck when playing the second note of the interval. So a minor third has the two shapes on the melody side, and two different ones on the fifths side. Different shapes and different fingerings for the same sound.

When both sides are tuned the same, parallel or mirrored, there are only two shapes for each hand. You will often use the same fingering to play motives and melodies that occur in both hands.

Furthermore, the bass side can only sound harmonic minor thirds with difficulty, and seconds are out, unless you use the thumb. This cuts the available repertoire by 90% or so, including the Bach chorales that are so important for studying harmony.


Mad Monk.