Hey there all,

I am looking to completely upgrade my sound system for my Stick playing. I have been playing out of an Acoustic SG 120S, and it has been good to me in terms of learning the basics of how to play the stick. It works great in all ranges of its mids, but i have never been satisfied with its lows and highs. The lows never give me enough punch or roundness and the highs always seem so weak and slightly cut off. I now have a fair bit of coin saved up, so i hope to solve those issues and more! Keep in mind, I am still exploring the clean and unprocessed sounds of the stick, so no fancy reverb, chorus or distortion for me...yet

My first dilemma was "play through a keyboard amp or PA system?" or "Play through the a dedicated Bass speaker and guitar speaker?" I took my Stick to my local guitar center to test out lots of systems, (which gave me many a humorous gawk and "what the heck is that thing?") after trying out lots of amps, I think I am leaning toward the dual amp situation. And thus comes my first set of questions: Which kind of method do you use? What are the pros and cons to both?

Now, since I am leaning toward the dual amp situation, I found myself drawn to these two amps in particular. For my bass side, I thought the Markbass standard 104HF sounded wonderful. Being a bass player, I would love this for my cover band but has anyone used it for stick?

For my melody side, I thought that the Fender Mustang IV sounded great. Does anyone have any experience with this amp? Yes it has plenty of cool pre-sets and stuff, but as a clean sound, I was liking how clear and projecting it was.

Also, it would be hard to say this without hands on experience, would these two amps sound good together? Would the massive 800watt bass speaker totally blow away the 150watt guitar speaker?

Finally, I would get the Markbass little mark 800 head to power my bass speakers since a head is built into the Mustang. With both of those heads on my speakers, would a preamp still be necessary for me to get? If so, should I finally get a stepAbout?

Any input of my choices, good or bad. Anything I'm missing to make a killer clean sound?

Luke

This is great question. I am looking forward to the responses here.

I would start by asking yourself these three questions about your live rig setup and requirements:

1. What is wrong with your current amplifier?
2. Are you running multiple instruments through your live rig?
3. What size venue are you generally playing at?

I have been running through a Behringer KB900x which is a great practice amp. 3 channels, independent volume and effects, but much too small for my live sound requirements.

I have recently acquired a pair of EV ZLX 12" powered speakers which do the trick. As a bassist, I have used EV speakers for a good long while, so I know and respect their brand. It's a solid cabinet, 1000w per speaker and wrapped up in a ~40 pound chassis. I run the Stick through channels 1 and 2 of a very modest Alto 4 channel mixer. My live set also requires channels for my Eigenharp Pico and vocals, so it was a natural move for me. Amp models and effects are programmed using Line 6's Edit software and then pushed to the HD500x. I keep my Fender 66 Bassman for the occasional session, but prefer a more lightweight load out for solo live sets.

I have tried a two amp solution, which worked for me for a long time. As of late, I much prefer running powered amps through a mixer as it's easier to transport, setup/breakdown and manage. Most of my work is here at the wineries, which vary in size and locale (indoor / outdoor). This solution makes good sense for me - although, if I was playing the role of a bassist in a band, playing in clubs, it would be a whole different discussion.

It does all depend on what the ultimate tone, etc. you're looking to hear.

An option to consider is a single powered speaker and dual multi-effects. A QSC K12 or KW12 is about 40lb and 1000watts. I use Zoom G3 and B3 multi-effects and can shape both sides of the Stick's output.

What I like about this rig is the flexibility of the tone I can generate and the portability.

Good luck in finding your ultimate rig.

Randy

I too am a bass player… I have had the Markbass gear, and you can not go wrong. Check out the Alain Caron combos…. you could get a pair of those… and in saying that, I switched to two QSC K-12 Powered speakers, and I also include a GK- MB210when I need more low end. Every thing goes through a Line6 Pod HD-500x. very happy with the sound, and it is a light proratable rig.

Dont spend any money until you're sure!!!
Over the years the amount I wasted trying this 'n that keeps me awake at night!!

As a bassist you've already got a bass rig that ( I presume) you are happy with,
so getting a melody-side amp is an obvious solution.
Thats just one extra amp and not a whole different set up.

But if you really-really-really need a new bass amp the Markbass is a good choice.
I've got an Ampeg bass rig, so I intend to pair it with a Vox guitar combo. Since I play guitar and bass...this covers all eventualities.

But....I also have a crate acoustic amp.
So if as you say you're exploring clean sounds then both sides of the Stick work very well with this single amp solution.
Simple and convenient.
You can always use you bass rig as well, for a bit more power and separation,
and as long as you're not getting into overdriven lead tones it should work well.

From what you say...I'd go for a Crate or similar. I don't know the SG 120S you mention, but I've always been pleased with the range of sound I get with the Crate.
BTW-- Greg used my crate when he came to the UK a few years back.

I've never been convinced about "venue size" being an important consideration (sorry Gene!!).
Sax players just bring their horn...they dont fit a huge bell to their instrument if its a big room!
Just have a system that can get as loud as you feel comfortable playing at
...there is (IMHO) a volume sweet-spot, from the players perspective.
In a big venue Theres most likely to be a sound system anyway,
and depending on the actual gig-type,
the audience may sit and listen,
or may be chatting or standing near you if they want anything more than background music.

MUSO G.A.S. attacks are best avoided so.............
Dont spend any money until you're sure!!!

I agree with you on having a plan for your investment. If you've got the time, nothing ever bad comes of good planning.

We can respectfully agree to disagree on venue size calypsocool. I don't know that comparing the experience of a horn player and a Stick player applies to what Luke is asking, but I am not trying to sound like a jerk about it, so please don't take that the wrong way. Sax players don't even have amps.

Unless you are Skerik. Check him at 4:18.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmUeZkr9H4k[/youtube]

With regards to Luke's question, which I understood to be how to get a killer clean sound, don't rule out powered speakers as they offer a very versatile option for the Stick. You can use a single full range EV ZLX powered speaker ($399 for 1000w) with an inexpensive mixer ($50 Alto 4-channel) for smaller gigs. This is $10 more than your Acoustic SG 120S ($439.99) and will afford you more punch in the low end and brilliance in the upper registers. I've tried the Acoustic SG 120S - an exceptional amp for the Stick with separation for each channel, but as you have mentioned, lacking in power.

I would also suggest making good use of the Guitar Center 30 day policy. In so long as you are not thrashing the gear about, you can return anything you purchase before the end of 30 days. All the peeps at my local GC know that I will make use of this.

It sounds like this Line6 POD 500x is pretty popular. Are you saying that it is a suitable enough preamp for my stick instead of the stepAbout? It looks pretty awesome!

I did not know GC had a 30 day return policy. I guess I will go and try out a few powered speakers and return the ones that don't appeal me.

Gene, would I still need the mixer if I chose to get the POD? As of right now, I am only planning on running my Stick through the speakers and nothing more.

Thanks for the info and recommendations.

Luke

Whoa! For starters, any pedal designed by a Stickist for a Stickist is going to trump anything that Line 6 can dream up. Rob Martino uses both an HD500 and a StepAbout - his sound at the Free Hands Academy Stick Night in Anaheim was huge! Great tone throughout. It's a matter of preference and of course, pick up type. I have been favoring the ACTV-2s as of late, so no pre-amp is required really.

You could run the speakers directly out of the HD500x, a mixer is not required. I am generally running my own sound at venues that I play, so I need extra inputs for a mic and my Mac which run the Eigenharp and iTunes when I need mp3s for in between sets.

There are output settings(check page 18) in the HD500x that allow you to choose how the unit will be used. This basically tells the unit what it will be played through. There are four settings:
1. Studio Direct: which is basically going direct into a board or mixer
2. Combo and Stack: Made for external amp
3. Combo Front & Stack Front: most typical going into front input of amp or external cab
4. Combo Power Amp & Stack Power Amp: For connecting to power amp of combo or head amp

I have only used the first setting. I have read about guys that go direct out of the HD500x and just get their feed through their monitors.

The HD500x is a big step. It took me a good 2 months to figure out. But I pretty much have it under wraps now, very exciting and extremely convenient.

The next step is the rack version, but for a bit more, you could get an Avid 11 Rack or the AXE FX - those are both serious freekin tools. HD500x runs ~$500 and tax, so the choice was an economical one for me.

Hi Luke,
I've been watching this with some interest, as these are questions that I mull over from time to time. I don't have many answers to most of the things you've asked, but for the above, I can give you one.
I currently use a 500-watt SWR amp with a Carvin BR118 for the bass side (I'm not performing yet, but Glenn Poorman was selling the amp, and I couldn't pass it up...) and a Line 6 Spider IV 30-watt guitar amp. On a couple of occasions I've opened them both up to see what the result would be. Believe it or not, the Spider kept up. (Part of the reason for this is that higher frequencies have more cut and carrying power, of course.)
A guitar amp with the kind of wattage you're describing is capable of some pretty loud output. I don't think you have anything to fear.
Good luck with the search!