What is your opinion. Anyone played one? man they make insane stuff. School me on this, how is the tapping!? the mini z 12[ seems like a midi tapper but not sure about the feel. And its 7 grand ha but whatever. Lets talk stars. They been around awhile too huh[img][/

I tried em at NAMM shows. They play well,track well but they have a particular feel to them that some guys just can't get comfortable with. I've been trying to play keyboard sounds on a stringed instrument since 1967. Remember the Vox "Organ Guitar"? Then in 1980 moved on to the MCI Guitorgan then to a midified Guitorgan then to a Stepp,Synthaxe,some Yamaha doo-dad, all kinds of Suzuki and Roland midi guitars and midi pickups for normal guitars and I even built a 12 pole midi pickup in 1988 and put it on a Sierra 12 string E9/B6 universal pedal steel which actually worked pretty well apart from the bad tracking on the 3 strings above .050. - and all the rack stuff I had to schlepp all over the world. The Starr stuff is a good way to go because it's not strings - it's these little rows of on/off buttons shaped like grains of rice. So it tracks instantly. You can't outplay it like a string-to-midi thingy. But it's too late for me. I'm done. For now anyway. I coulda bought a lot of piano lessons for the money I spent. The Stick sounds cool enough on the natch already.

This is a similar reply to the same question on my last post in Showcase. Thought I'd include it here for greater visibility since other people should know what they're getting into if they try to go this route. This is only the negative stuff about it. The positive stuff can be found in my Showcase post.

People don't like to spend time programming it, like how a click of a button changes to several possible tunings.

It has other issues that will bother people too. You can't get a natural sounding vibrato. It's got expression tape on the back of the neck and an expression strip just under where you'd finger pick the strings. It's also got a keyboard synth style expression joystick none of which will make a blues guitarist happy.

God forbid you ever accidentally touch any of these things while you're playing. Most people turn off the ones they don't intend to use because inevitably you touch all of them by accident much too often.

Another issue they have is the difficulty prospective buyers have in finding out useful information about their product without drowning in a sea of useless user specific data. Their website has the useful videos buried instead of prominent on page one and even those are piece-meal.

I had to spend a lot of time looking for info on Youtube, in reviews, and existing users. Not many customers are going to have that high a level of commitment. If you can't tell most people in 30 seconds why they want you, they're ALL gone.

Lastly, they haven't got the customer service thing down yet. They desperately need someone like Emmett with experience to handle it. Their forum is down and seems like it's not coming back. Emmett could totally help them with that. He had an arrangement with Steinberger. Why not Starr Labs too?

My Z7-S didn't come with the power adapter for the Air Wireless system it needs to function correctly and when I plugged in the midi cable from something that was plugged in, it burned out the Air Wireless system.

Fucking hell if I want to send it to them and have them send it back after they've fixed it. Because it was what? more than $3,000 for the instrument and the import duty to Indonesia was about $1,500 not including the air wireless system.

Emmett would have prevented any of that nonsense before it ever occurred. I imagine the company is beleaguered with customer inquiries, and existing customer issues which is not only preventable, it's essential for the company to run smoothly and profitably.

Either they think the website issue isn't important or just can't seem to make the time for it. They're wrong if they think it's not a very high priority of theirs. Emmett could advise them on that too.

Also, although the gear is not very complex to hook up, I could see a newbie giving up because there wasn't even one piece of documentation to explain how to set it up or what should have arrived with the instrument. A drawing, something... just throw us a bone please.

Right now I'm waiting to see if the TV electronics people down the street can fix my burned out Air Wireless system.

My external sound module doesn't have a midi port so I'll have to buy one of those little midi connections or something to finally make it all work. But I wanted WIRELESS.

That concludes my review of the Z7-S. Videos coming soon to a Stickist.com forum near you.

hmm, ok. I totally dig that you must program these things like mad, i guess the button tapping feel is what i want to hear your thoughts on. Is it soft feeling? I use a urock guitar the ultimate fake knockoff and the tapping is amazing, a soft membrane of plasticy psudo strings. SO there is no click or button feel on that $100 beast of a midi guitar that looks like a silly kids toy haha.
Ztars look like the rolls royce but man the research is tough. And they are so cryptic! Ahhhh.
Anyway , Im not quite sure if you are %100 happy with it (mainly tapping and midi response)besides the weak customer service and problems.

And yeah I totally bet/guess that Emmett ran into harvey starr sometime throughout the 70's and 80's. Both original gangsters of instrument inventions. Both innovative madmen living in relative proximity and I would think they would have bounced ideas around. Speculating of course...

"Octive tuning, it's a great thing"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SI9WAHjJbhk

Skip to about 45seconds to 'see Todd rip'.

*J*
.~

The other issue that makes me unhappy is that I see where other Ztarists got a CD with their purchase. Is that essential software for operating the thing? I hope not because mine didn't come with one. Stressing...

Some people don't like the distance the frets are apart. The "rice-grains" feel fine to me but I've seen where people have tried to sell theirs because they didn't like it. There will probably be some innovation in the future that will make them feel like round wound strings and be able to produce believable pitch bend and vibrato just by pushing on them.

I have a VERY STRONG intuition that Harvey Starr's current satisfied customer base would buy Railboards and N/S Sticks if they were guided to a new Ztar forum on Stickist.com. I see where many players also devote themselves to "tapping" it. They would naturally find their way over to the Stick website. That would be good for Emmett. I don't think that would affect Mr. Starr because his instruments are so expensive. After a purchase it would be a long time before someone would be buying another one, so if a customer is going to Emmett to buy a stick, that's not Harvey's lost money that could have been his.

I would personally hunt down every post made on the different forums and Youtube of people with Mr. Starr's instruments and invite them to the new Ztar forum here if it could be arranged.

I also think that if Mr. Starr is struggling financially so that he can't improve his website, restart his forum, send out CDs and whatever, allowing him access to Emmett's loyal customer base (if Emmett made a profit from the sale of MiniZs or what not) would help both of them.

I think that Emmett should get a percentage for sales of the instrument that is "stick-like" on Mr. Starr's website. But currently we can't in good conscience endorse the nice people here to buy from him until he gets his customer service straightened out. No forum means that he and his secretary have to handle all customer inquiries personally.

That's a recipe to make them hate customer interaction. And make customers get slow, crappy service. Having a forum is important so they can farm out the work to other existing experts on the topic, other users. I think that would free them up immensely.

He's probably been riding the roller-coaster of rain and drought for a while now. When he gets some cash, he creates new innovative instruments and improvements to old ones. Without it he can only sit on his ideas.

Emmett was fortunate to be in a position to do both that and continue to bang his head against a brick wall until all the OTHER things could be made to work smoothly; websites, forums, factory.

Found your post by chance and have some comments.

Firstly, allow me to introduce myself. This is Les Fradkin. I own, play and always use a
Ztar Z7S-XPA. My blue Ztar in the videos is one of the original 4 Z7s prototypes.
Now, my white one has Ableton Live clip cueing, which is easier to manage with multi colored fretboard.

My videos on YouTube show some of the things that are possible with a Ztar.
I play Progressive Symphonic Rock. My work with Canon In D has just won the 2014 Best Classical Recording for the Indie Music Channel Awards.

For me, the "feel" of the buttons is much easier than playing guitar, in so far as finger pressure is concerned. But it does take some getting used to, I'm sure.

So now, some responses to your comments:

You wrote: "People don't like to spend time programming it, like how a click of a button changes to several possible tunings. "

Response: Yes, programming it is time intensive. Nothing worthwhile, in music is ever achieved by immediate gratification. But you know that.

You wrote: "It has other issues that will bother people too. You can't get a natural sounding vibrato. It's got expression tape on the back of the neck and an expression strip just under where you'd finger pick the strings. It's also got a keyboard synth style expression joystick none of which will make a blues guitarist happy."

Response: The Ztar is not designed to be expressive with respect to blues stylings. Since I do not operate in that manner, it doesn't bother me. YMMV.

You wrote: "God forbid you ever accidentally touch any of these things while you're playing. Most people turn off the ones they don't intend to use because inevitably you touch all of them by accident much too often. "

Response: Like any other instrument, one must train muscle memory to touch the things you're supposed to and avoid the things you're supposed to avoid. Additionally, you can program the depth of response of each sensor so the result will not be extreme.

You wrote: "Another issue they have is the difficulty prospective buyers have in finding out useful information about their product without drowning in a sea of useless user specific data. Their website has the useful videos buried instead of prominent on page one and even those are piece-meal. "

Response: Because of it's extreme open ended design, the Ztar is all about User specific data. No one else that I have ever seen plays like me and very few of us play like each other. I believe that is a good thing., In fact, that is what makes the Ztar so attractive. For a change, here is an instrument where you can pick the thing up and not copy anybody. What a change from the culture of electric guitar.

You wrote: "I had to spend a lot of time looking for info on Youtube, in reviews, and existing users. Not many customers are going to have that high a level of commitment. If you can't tell most people in 30 seconds why they want you, they're ALL gone. "

Response: The Ztar is a poor choice for those without a high level of commitment. It takes many years to develop technique on the Ztar and that would be the same for the Stick, if I'm not mistaken.

You wrote: "Lastly, they haven't got the customer service thing down yet. They desperately need someone like Emmett with experience to handle it. Their forum is down and seems like it's not coming back. Emmett could totally help them with that. He had an arrangement with Steinberger. Why not Starr Labs too? "

Response: I have never had trouble reaching Harvey Starr for advice, counseling on tunings and such. He has always given me his time. Of course, I did have to read the manual many times to make sense of things, but soon discovered that the manual was written for his specific Ztar style and approach. Once I broke free of that restrictive thinking, all became possible. The videos show this.

You wrote: "My Z7-S didn't come with the power adapter for the Air Wireless system it needs to function correctly and when I plugged in the midi cable from something that was plugged in, it burned out the Air Wireless system. "

Response: I run the Air power hooked up to a laptop with USB. No problems whatsoever there. I have never had the power adapter and have never asked for one.

You wrote: "Fucking hell if I want to send it to them and have them send it back after they've fixed it. Because it was what? more than $3,000 for the instrument and the import duty to Indonesia was about $1,500 not including the air wireless system. "

Response: This is my one negative critique of Starr Labs- things should be fixable in the field. I have often discussed this with them. No change as yet, unfortunately.

You wrote: "Emmett would have prevented any of that nonsense before it ever occurred. I imagine the company is beleaguered with customer inquiries, and existing customer issues which is not only preventable, it's essential for the company to run smoothly and profitably."

Response: At the risk of playing defense, you are comparing apples to potatoes. You do not know what goes on at Starr Labs and it is unfair of you to comment on facts which you do not know. (And no, I do not work for them).

You wrote: "Either they think the website issue isn't important or just can't seem to make the time for it. They're wrong if they think it's not a very high priority of theirs. Emmett could advise them on that too."

Response: They are aware of this issue. And it is a priority. They don't need Emmet to tell them that.

You wrote: "Also, although the gear is not very complex to hook up, I could see a newbie giving up because there wasn't even one piece of documentation to explain how to set it up or what should have arrived with the instrument. A drawing, something... just throw us a bone please."

Response: Hook up drawings are now included with the manual (I drew them). Available in the
support section of their website.

You wrote: "Right now I'm waiting to see if the TV electronics people down the street can fix my burned out Air Wireless system."

Response: Good luck.

You wrote: "My external sound module doesn't have a midi port so I'll have to buy one of those little midi connections or something to finally make it all work. But I wanted WIRELESS. "

Response: Your Air Power can work with batteries. Use it that way for wireless with an external sound module.

That concludes my review of the Z7-S. Videos coming soon to a Stickist.com forum near you.[/quote]


Regards,
Les Fradkin
http://www.lesfradkin.com
http://www.reverbnation.com/lesfradkin
https://www.facebook.com/lfradkin
http://www.youtube.com/user/lfradkin

Hi,

I wrote to you before but I don't remember if it was your email or your youtube page or where. Never got a reply when I was having all of my issues with the thing.

What happened is, things didn't arrive. There was no document explaining what should have arrived or how to hook it up. Easy bullshit to prevent.

It's been months and months concerning their 30 day policy on replacing my burned out unit and the adapters that never arrived. Although you may never have had a problem with them, their customer service absolutely sucks and I'm here to tell everyone at Stickist.com not to go anywhere NEAR their products. I don't recommend to people I care about to enter the QUAGMIRE of wasted time writing detailed but in the end bullshit emails again and again since they can't even seem to remember that they already told me a new unit was "in the Que." And I had to tell them again in detail what didn't arrive, what did, what's broken.

This time, they wanted the number off the board which had to be popped out to see it and then it was unreadable and had to send them a photo. I haven't got time for that shit.

Do you think their customers give a rats ass about why their shit don't work? They want the working product to work when it arrives and if it don't work to handle it QUICKLY.

They could have sent the replacements before they finally can figure out what happened but they didn't. They seem to think they need to understand first what happened. It's bass-ackwards.

We're talking months and months here pal. You just show up and try to sound like you will somehow be successful to stifle the negative voice.

You don't have a relationship with anyone here. Seems like every time I post something 700 people read what I say. It's probably not the same 700 each time either. So, if you're a mole for Harvey Starr, you should recommend to him that he should have made me happy about his product from the beginning.

Allow me to smear Harvey Starr's name all over the internet to an army of angry hackers;
IF YOU'RE NOT THE LEAD GUITARIST FOR LINKIN PARK, DON'T BUY A ZTAR OR ANYTHING ELSE FROM A BOUTIQUE COMPANY THAT HAS NO TALENT FOR TAKING CARE OF ANY OF THE OTHER BUSINESS BESIDES DESIGNING THE THING. END OF STORY!

If they put a system in place to handle customer problems with greater speed, I'll change my tune. I have a feeling it's never going to happen.

Oh, and now Brenda is not only saying they don't understand the two detailed emails that said what's broken, what didn't arrive and what didn't, she's also seems to be trying to say that the message which `i last sent that says just send the burned out unit and two adapters is also hard to understand because she's sending it on to Harvey. Seems to me she could have sent the unit instead of sending another email to `Harvey. It's kinda hard to pretend to be stupid when you design and build ztars. So, I get the impression that they're big fat liars, pretenders, con artists and frauds. They're trying to wear down the customer so that they just give up instead of just send the product they guaranteed. Game over.

Just to give some balance on this issue, I also have a ztar I bought second hand and it's been a mixed experience between the two position in this thread.

Negatives are it took a while to learn to program but I eventually figured out the manual and can do what I need now. It's about as hard as a Roland product to figure out and the manual of similar clarity. The buttons are a plus and minus. The constant spacing is actually easier to play than a guitar. Other negative is mine has usb that is not naive but needs a driver. This does not play well with some sequencers and only works on and off with ableton. I've had to go back to old school midi to get it to work. This is my main issue with it. I've never had to contact starr labs so can't comment on service.

On the plus side it is an incredible midi controller. I have tried do many different guitar synths and they are not even in the same league. Yes you can't directly bend our slide but for a tapper the midi trigger experience is like a new world after using pitch to midi systems. Just instantaneous and accurate. Also being able to play polyphonic notes on one string opens up cool possibilities for close voicings. It's a great keyboard for guitarists especially tappers. It's madness to start from scratch and learn keyboard when button arrays in 4ths or 5ths translate straight from strings. And one day the buttons will be very expressive for example like the eigenharp. Btw I have also had a hard time with double triggers and getting my threshold correct.

Overall it's a unique bit of kit which opens up the world of electronic music and study synths to guitarists on a level that is equal footing to keyboard. It has some execution difficulties but the potential and concept is amazing. So I agree with both points of view above partly and think there is a future for the tech. Cheers.

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