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 Railboard Practice Amplifier 
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Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2015 7:43 pm
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Post Railboard Practice Amplifier
I am thrilled to be receiving my Railboard (plum with gold and black hipshot tuners) in the next month or two. The Railboard has always been my bucket list instrument and now I can finally afford one. I have played various string instruments in the past but never one that required an amplifier. I am looking for a practice amplifier or PA system for practice or jamming with friends. I particularly want an unit that is not heavy- 30 pounds or less. I do not plan to play gigs.
I am concerned about the range of the instrument and obtaining a system that can handle the low as well as the high frequencies. The Yamaha 400i Stagepas is a consideration, but eventually I would probably add a Zoom pedal for spring reverb, tremulo, etc. The Vox Valvetronix VT 20 has the effects I would use, but I am unsure about its ability to handle the low frequencies of the Railboard. Another suggestion was that I should consider the MarkBass Micromark or Fender Rumble V3 with the Zoom B3, but I was concerned about hearing the higher frequencies. I would appreciate hearing your opinions as I will be making a purchase of a sound system for this unit when it arrives.


Sun Mar 08, 2015 8:34 pm
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Post Re: Railboard Practice Amplifier
phxgardenbug wrote:
I am thrilled to be receiving my Railboard (plum with gold and black hipshot tuners) in the next month or two. The Railboard has always been my bucket list instrument and now I can finally afford one. I have played various string instruments in the past but never one that required an amplifier. I am looking for a practice amplifier or PA system for practice or jamming with friends. I particularly want an unit that is not heavy- 30 pounds or less. I do not plan to play gigs.
I am concerned about the range of the instrument and obtaining a system that can handle the low as well as the high frequencies. The Yamaha 400i Stagepas is a consideration, but eventually I would probably add a Zoom pedal for spring reverb, tremulo, etc. The Vox Valvetronix VT 20 has the effects I would use, but I am unsure about its ability to handle the low frequencies of the Railboard. Another suggestion was that I should consider the MarkBass Micromark or Fender Rumble V3 with the Zoom B3, but I was concerned about hearing the higher frequencies. I would appreciate hearing your opinions as I will be making a purchase of a sound system for this unit when it arrives.


A bass amp will give you the warmth but you will lose a little sizzle on the top. A powered PA speaker will give you strong mids and highs but not ultra lows, it's always a trade off. (Unless you buy a PA with subs.) My focus is more bass-centric so I run a bass amp but when i need more highs I also run a powered PA speaker. So ... two sides of a stick can = two amps, a bass amp and a powered pa speaker. My opinion is, if you simply want to play and have the acoustic sound of the Stick go with a powered PA speaker but if you want real bottom you need to add a bass amp.

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Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:26 am
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Post Re: Railboard Practice Amplifier
Yeah, this is the quintessential question regarding Sticks: how to amplify. There have been so many threads on this topic; one in particular (if you have the time) is Robstafarian's "Rig Building: Does Gig Potential Matter?" thread. There are also plenty of threads from people who talk about their portable PA systems from Bose and Fishman.
I will speak from my own experience, which is admittedly limited.
Don't get a Fender Rumble series amp. For that matter, don't get ANY bass amp that's at the beginner or intermediate level, or one that's called a "practice" amp. You'll be sorely disappointed with the sound, and the potential of your Railboard will not even come close to being realized.
I have two setups. One is a dedicated guitar amp for the melody side, and a bass amp/cabinet set for the bass side. The amp is an SWR SM-500, and the cabinet is a Carvin BR-115. I have to say, it produces an incredible sound. The Carvin cabinet reproduces everything I want and expect out of the lows, and it still sparkles in the highs.
The other setup is an inexpensive mixer with phantom power (Behringer, near the end of its life) going into a powered PA speaker (a QSC K12). Aside from the fact that when my wife's Stick comes in, we'll both be able to play simultaneously out of it, this setup gives the most flexibility and live capability, especially if you're planning on singing and/or adding other sound sources to your show. Of course, it also has phantom power, so the R-Block pickup can really shine. The QSC does a pretty good job of reproducing the lows. It's not thunderous like the SWR/Carvin combination, so there is a loss of some lows, but not so much that the instrument loses its balls completely. And overall, its sound is very pleasing to the ear. A little "claustrophobic", maybe just a little "stuffy" sounding, but still, its sound is nice and pretty well-balanced.
Hope this helps.

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Mon Mar 09, 2015 5:05 am
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Post Re: Railboard Practice Amplifier
What Luc said, go with the QSC k12's, I own a pair plus their K-sub...


Mon Mar 09, 2015 7:31 am
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Post Re: Railboard Practice Amplifier
isn't there an elephant in the room that no one is addressing here- PHANTOM POWER for the Railboard!

Tim Longfellow looked for phantom power for 45 minutes at the Pittsburgh Seminar to get Greg's Railboard to work at its optimum.
Dbro

Luc by the by- I used a Fender Rumble 100 for major festivals with Stick 2 It! It had an XLR out for the soundman with independent volume, plus an active/passive switch depending on pickups, scoop switch, a 4 band EQ, effects send, plus a solid 15" with a tweeter and a ported sound cab that lit up! I also used it to open for the CGT. so I think it was OK! plus a CD/iPod in, headphone jack, and a ground lift!

My advice is get your Railboard first, then go to Guitar Center or your local music dealer, figure out your budget and what venues you anticipate playing or if you are just going to be home in your folks basement, then make a decision based on your preference and budgetary constraints. :D


Mon Mar 09, 2015 7:51 am
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Post Re: Railboard Practice Amplifier
88 is pretty spot on in his assessment. I also concur with Luc and Dbro in their assessment of bass amps. What works for some may not work for others. Using the GC 30 day return model has been great for me. I returned 2 set of powered speakers before deciding on the EV's.

The only points I could add would be to know what you are looking to do with the instrument, who you expect to be your audience and where you anticipate playing. I generally play as a soloist or part of a 2 or 3 part ensemble at local area venues (wineries, restaurants and outdoor festivals / events in the summer) and my audience is usually eating or socializing while I play. At some events, I also provide incidental music in between sets.

A PA solution made the most sense for me. I chose the EV ZLX 12p as it was inexpensive, dependable and for the most part, versatile enough that I could use it in conjunction with an entry level 6 channel mixer to accommodate vocals, Stick (stereo) and a laptop to roll music in between sets. This is coupled with an Line 6 HD500x for processing on both sides.

Image

There are many here that swear by the QSC powered speakers and I would not contest it (Marty, Rob, Randy, Emmett, Kevin(s), etc.). It was just a matter of money as the QSC's are twice as expensive.

Once you can answer these questions, your decision will be considerably easier. If you look at your purchase like a project, consider what PMs refer to as the iron triangle: Cost, Time and Quality.
Image

These same principles can be applied for your amp(s) purchase.
*Inexpensive and light, but lower quality
*inexpensive and high quality, but heavy
*High quality and light, but expensive

Geez, there may be some more combinations there, it's still early for me...

There are many aspects to consider when purchasing an amp for an instrument as versatile as the Chapman Stick. Forums and social media are a great asset, so posting here is a great start on your path - best of luck.

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Mon Mar 09, 2015 7:57 am
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Post Re: Railboard Practice Amplifier
What is your budget?

EDIT: Do not run out and buy something.

EDIT 2: See my thoughts on powered PA systems, which uses the QSC K12 as a case study, here.


Mon Mar 09, 2015 1:59 pm
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Post Re: Railboard Practice Amplifier
This has NOTHING to do with practice amps but.....

I asked around about PA wedges the other day since I need to get a decent monitor system for a sound system I have. Some very hi end sound tech guys simultaneously suggested to get four Yamaha DXR10´s and add a DXS12 for the drummers monitor speaker to add some more low end. The DXR10 goes from around 55 to 20 k but has a hi pass filter that one can set to 100 or 120 hz. It delivers 1.100 W (!) and comes with a seven year warranty. The DXS12 is a 950 W sub woofer that works from 47 to 160 hz. They use these puppies on pretty hi demand gigs. The DXR10 goes for 600 us dollars and the DXS12 costs 700 us. That is 1.300 us dollars together. Most likely a fantastic combo.

Compared to a QSC K12 that costs 800 us dollars. A Bose L1 Model II with two B1 bass speakers costs 2.800 us dollars. Half the power. If not even less.... You´ll get two DXR10´s and two DXS12´s for the same money as one Bose L1 Model II system.

I´ve not listened to the Yamaha speakers yet but will do so in a short time. My sound tech friends swears by them. One DXR10 by itself would probably do a decent job as a active Stick amp. Combined with a good mixer with phantom power and to straight away or later on add a DXS12 it would probably be a fantastic system for the Stick. These boxes has been around since 2012. Abit strange that I´ve not heard of them until recently. Don´t do that much live sound these days tho. Will write about them when I´ve had a chance to check them out. I will probably get 4 DXR10´s and one DXS12 as a monitor system for the sound system. IF that happens I will of course try them with my Stick as well.

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Mon Mar 09, 2015 4:18 pm
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Post Re: Railboard Practice Amplifier
Jan Hellman wrote:
The DXR10 goes for 600 us dollars and the DXS12 costs 700 us. That is 1.300 us dollars together. Most likely a fantastic combo. [...] Combined with a good mixer with phantom power and to straight away or later on add a DXS12 it would probably be a fantastic system for the Stick.

Whereas I do not intend to recommend anything without knowing your budget (referring to the OP), I would like to raise a few points relative to what I have quoted from Jan. To wit:

The Little fEARful That Could
  1. You can buy a fEARful 12/6/1 for $1,025, plus an additional charge for the True Three Way crossover (which I recommend), but for this exercise I will assume that you are assembling a flat pack for a total of $700 (that includes the True Three Way crossover).
  2. The remaining $600 could be spent a few ways:
    1. Into a bass head with the Railboard passive:
      • The Carvin BX700 will put 300W into that cabinet and leave you with $200 leftover.
      • The Fender Rumble 500 has fewer EQ options than the Carvin BX700, but it will put 350W into that cabinet while costing the same.
      • The Carvin B1000 has six well-positioned bands of EQ (which will probably be more intuitive than the BX700's controls), will put 325W into that cabinet, and you would have $120 leftover.
      • The Carvin BX1600 has one more band of semi-parametric EQ than the BX700 and will put 1,000W into that cabinet when bridged
    2. Into a channel strip and power amp with the Railboard active (this particular example would be $60 over budget):
      • The ART Pro Channel II has a low cut filter (a very good thing), an optical compressor with all five controls (rather than the abbreviated controls you find on compressor pedals), four bands of EQ with two semi-parametric mid bands, and lots of options for bypassing what you do not want.
      • The Crown XLS 1500 will put 1,050W into that cabinet when bridged (a Crest ProLite 2.0 would give more wattage and a longer warranty while coming in under budget, but they are back ordered until August).

I went into depth about gear for the bass side (including how and why it could be the foundation of a "mono" rig) in Episode #44 of Free Hands Friday, and what I linked in my previous post is how that episode would have continued had time not run short:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QW4u-O0Syj8[/youtube]

EDIT: Sweetwater sells the Yamaha DXR12 and DXS12 for $700 each. That means that option 2B would be $40 under budget, rather than $60 over budget. By the way, the Yamaha DXS12 is 10dB down at 47Hz—which is worse than a fEARful, but almost as good as the QSC KSub (which is 10dB down at 44Hz and costs $380 more).


Last edited by Robstafarian on Mon Mar 09, 2015 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mon Mar 09, 2015 5:27 pm
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Post Re: Railboard Practice Amplifier
The fEARful 12/6/1 is a passive cab, right? And its costs $1,025? + some extra bobs for crossover? Or you´ll build it yourself for 700? Or am I missing something here?

I can assure you that a Yamaha system (or any other well knows brand) has a much higher second hand value if one wants to sell later on. This is something that I myself often try to calculate with.

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Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:32 pm
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