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Crafty tuning
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Author:  CrumbledFingers [ Fri Jan 21, 2011 3:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crafty tuning
Deep Guitar? But now that I've been doing my research, I'm not sure if I want it anymore (the tuning, I mean). The "uniform" tunings seem to be a lot more conducive to improvisation, anyway. I'll probably have to experience a few before I settle on one. Crafty is out, probably.

My username is from a recent Brian Eno song called "Passing Over"... it's a beautiful line, and such an obscure song that I think literally nobody else on the worldwide web has this name for anything I have ever signed up for!

Gone
Through crumbled fingers, gone
Can never be recollected
Author:  DonScott [ Fri May 20, 2011 8:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crafty tuning
I’m curious where your thinking is on this tuning question now. I’ve been pondering the same sort of tuning lately after learning about Markus Reuter’s Touch Guitar U8 (I became aware of Markus via his joining StickMen)…which is designed around the Crafty tuning you originally started discussing…and seems to be fundamentally an evolution of the 8 string Warr concept. These are interesting and well designed instruments but I see the argument that the engineering of the Stick instruments is specific to tapping rather than trying to adapt guitar hardware to the task… Pondering all this lately has caused me to look into the NS Stick a bit more and it is obviously a really cool instrument ….plus I’ve had a huge love for Stienberger guitars and basses since I was a nerdy kid…LOL. It’s clear that having a non crossed tuning, with some combination of bass notes (4th or 5ths) progressing up to a guitar centric tuning of the higher note all on an instrument designed for tapping would be very fun and natural for a guitar player like me. Checking out Gary Jibilian’s playing confirms the fun part I’d say !! Anyway, I’m committed to getting my head around the Matched Reciprocal tuning on my 10 string grand…but it really is a totally different headspace from my home base of guitar and bass…and I’m TRYING to stay focused on that, work on hand independence etc…but one’s mind wanders.

I’m planning on attending the Interlochen workshop this summer and am hoping there might be an NS player there who would be willing to let me give one a spin for fun.

Don
Author:  Godsmonkey [ Fri May 20, 2011 7:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crafty tuning
How about a standard guitar tuning on the highest 6 strings, with descending 4ths (F#, B, E, A, D, G, B, E)? This would give you all of your standard guitar techniques, plus additional low end. Alternately you could tune the whole thing down a whole step, or even 1 1/2 steps to get more low end. (E, A, D, G, C, A, D)
Author:  Ravi [ Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crafty tuning
CrumbledFingers wrote:
but the Crafty tuning has always intrigued me due to its range and idiosyncratic relationships among the higher strings. The Crafty tuning is:
Bb F C G D A C D


Sorry for digging up this topic. But this question is on my mind for some time.
Hope someone can explain this.

I know this is the tuning that Trey Gunn and Marcus Reuter use. But I don't see the logic here.
I can see the comparison between Fripps Crafty tuning for middle 6 strings. But I don't get the tuning of the highest string. Why a second (C-D)?

Also never got why Fripp's Crafty tuning isn't all 5th's instead of 5th's plus a minor 3rd?
All 5th's tuning would make more sense to me. It is possible with a very thin string (say the octave string of the G string on a 12-string guitar). There are some videos on Youtube of the 'all 5th's' tuning.
Author:  greg [ Tue Apr 01, 2014 6:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crafty tuning
Ravi wrote:
CrumbledFingers wrote:
but the Crafty tuning has always intrigued me due to its range and idiosyncratic relationships among the higher strings. The Crafty tuning is:
Bb F C G D A C D


Sorry for digging up this topic. But this question is on my mind for some time.
Hope someone can explain this.

I know this is the tuning that Trey Gunn and Marcus Reuter use. But I don't see the logic here.
I can see the comparison between Fripps Crafty tuning for middle 6 strings. But I don't get the tuning of the highest string. Why a second (C-D)?

Also never got why Fripp's Crafty tuning isn't all 5th's instead of 5th's plus a minor 3rd?
All 5th's tuning would make more sense to me. It is possible with a very thin string (say the octave string of the G string on a 12-string guitar). There are some videos on Youtube of the 'all 5th's' tuning.
The irregularities in the tuning have to do with the physical tolerance of strings, they would simply break if they were all 5ths. Long scale instruments don't do well with a high E, so D it is.

5ths for melody is mainly a "two-handed tuning". You don't see many players using this tuning for both hands who like to play two parts at once. For an individual hand, linear play is much more challenging than 4ths, though when it's inverted as on the Stick bass strings, it offers some pretty amazing and ergonomically advantageous chord possibilities.
Author:  Ravi [ Wed Apr 02, 2014 3:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Crafty tuning
Good points Greg. I just find the second between C and D very strange and less practical. I really wonder how they use this.

About string tension: there are some guitar players who use an all 5th's tuning. Think they use a really light gauge string for the highest string. Sounds more logical to me than the Fripp tuning the 5th plus minor 3rd on top.

Think you are also right about the linear approach of the ascending 5ths tuning. For chords it is harder but for single lines it might be easier I guess.
Author:  rclere [ Wed Apr 02, 2014 6:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crafty tuning
You should email Trey Gunn or Markus Reuter and talk to them to…I study with Trey and had 5th's tuning. I have since went back to Classic, but it really allows you to think out side the box as far as playing….
Author:  greg [ Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crafty tuning
Ravi wrote:
Good points Greg. I just find the second between C and D very strange and less practical. I really wonder how they use this.

About string tension: there are some guitar players who use an all 5th's tuning. Think they use a really light gauge string for the highest string. Sounds more logical to me than the Fripp tuning the 5th plus minor 3rd on top.

Think you are also right about the linear approach of the ascending 5ths tuning. For chords it is harder but for single lines it might be easier I guess.
I think it's just the extremes that dictate this.

D is the highest reasonable pitch for a 34" scale instrument without breakage, and Bb is about the lowest reasonable pitch for a tapped string. Lower than that and it gets pretty "floppy"

You can certainly have all 5ths on 6 strings, each way, but the lowest melody string ends up quite low

D
G
C
F
Bb
Eb just below a 4-string bass low E

This low melody note is a half-step below the lowest "melody" note on the Dual Bass Reciprocal tuning (just for reference). So you have tons of overlap between the string sets.

If you wanted to go this route, I'd suggest that you use a low Db on the bass strings instead of C or B or even Bb, because...

The pattern of pitches on both sets of strings will match the inlays exactly with a one-octave offset, making it very easy to find your way around. This means the bass stirngs at the fret 2 inlay are exactly one octave lower then the melody strings at fret 12.

If you wanted a lower bass tuning, then just lower the whole instrument by a whole step, and you have a low B at the X fret. (so many possibilities, on one instrument, amazing)

Randy can give you some insight into the benefits of 4ths and 5ths in the melody. He's spent a lot of time with each, though I think now he's loving the 4ths (am I right, Randy?)

The coolest thing about this with regard to The Stick is you can experiment with these tunings without having to replace or cut the nut as you would have to do on any other instrument, it's easily adjustable.

Emmett's design is a tuning experimenter's dream come true.

Image
Author:  rclere [ Wed Apr 02, 2014 9:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crafty tuning
true Greg, I am loving the Classic tuning…. Where I wanted to go, the Crafty Tuning was not working for me. What was strange is that it was not until I tuned the Stick in 5ths across the board that my playing and understanding of the instrument (which is still very limited) took off. The more that I played, I found that the Crafty Tuning was limiting for how I wanted to express myself.
Author:  Ravi [ Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Crafty tuning
rclere wrote:
You should email Trey Gunn or Markus Reuter and talk to them to…I study with Trey and had 5th's tuning. I have since went back to Classic, but it really allows you to think out side the box as far as playing….


Yes, really want to know more about the logic of their tuning. Not that I want to tune this way but it just interests me a lot. Since you have studied with Trey I am very curious what he has said about this 8-string tuning? especially the logic (or non-logic?) behind the tuning of the top two strings. I wander if it just a matter of string tension as Greg said or a more deep musical philosophy.

And in what respect did you think the crafty tuning was limiting?
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