...oh, yes, indeed an me too +1...

...the pitch 440 for a' is something like an industrial standart, to make life easier...
...in the early days ot development of western music their wasn't any reference pitch and the strings were presumably tuned to the strain feeled in the fingers...
...432 Hz is one of the later invented standart pitches, earlyer was the 415Hz tuning, like renaissance flutes...
...I myself use 440, maybe because I'm a social human being ...

As balt points out 440..and others aren't as locked in as we'd think.

take pipe organs forexample,they are tuned to a pitch...at a certain room temp(usually 70F) and can vary about 50 cents per F degree
and the pipes intermodulate

piano? well you might be able to get A4 tune to frequency X, but off that you are usually doing equal temperament AND stretch tuning on top of that

violin family instruments? well except for the open strings one is dynamically tuning the notes (dynamic intonation)

fretted instruments, well that's another beast with "imperfect" compensation trying to get a single string to ring true across a couple of octaves, usuallyin a tempered tuning
and on top of that, esp with metallic strings..bending.
the amt of pitch bend info that can come down a MIDI channel for a synth can be really outrageous (back in the day, there was even a proposed string protocol b/c it could swamp things)

horns...you can blow em sharp/flat

and that's in a western harmonic system!

beyond that we have human perception where musical pitch ain't exactly 1:1 with frequency


Personally, I think of it as a "beautiful mess" - I mean that in terms of intractability, that the phenomena don't neatly fit into an easily held and executed model. ie it isn't trite.
The models are just that, frameworks WE use to help us navigate and understand, but they aren't in-and-of-themselves the reality
much like trying to shove the celestial model into a bunch of platonic solids because it seems nice and tidy

Yes, and no... well, it depends on the instrumentation which one is joining in with playing.

I was also thinking about an interesting tuner which I have owned for about 27 years now, it's a Heriba Digital 2001, and one of the interesting things about it is it has a "calibration" option where once could choose 440, or any other number which they like - or need to tune to, again based on the other instruments being used by the other musicians.

I know for myself, if I was privillaged enough to be in a situation with just percussion players, then I tuned to what they were using - or perhaps the dominant drum.

Not sure if this link will display correctly, but this is that tuner I was mentioning: https://reverb.com/item/21314568-heriba ... st-germany

I have not used mine in many years, only because it started without warning while tuning to indicate an H note, which I took as a sign that something might be wrong.

It took a good long while for the world to agree on a standard pitch. It is as easy as that and certain instruments back in the days were built for a specific pitch and would fall apart if tuned in 440. I’ve met one guy in my life with perfect pitch that almost threw up if something played was not tuned in 440. Tough for him to listen to the radio back in the early 80’s since gramophone players could differ in speed for several reasons. Perfect pitch was a bloody curse for him. Bet there are people out there that “feel better” if something is tuned in 432 or any other pitch. But they are not many. Very few. I personally would never tune in another pitch than 440 myself. I enjoy playing with other people.

I do play the bag pipe occasionally. I have three. Two highland pipes and one french pipe. Pipers are nutters. Guitar players have this thing with playing fast. Think Yngwie. Pipers have a thing with tuning their pipes in higher pitch. The higher the “better”. I personally don’t understand why. The most important reason for playing a Scottish highland pipe is that it will also allow you to drink whisky dressed in a skirt without getting locked up.

Good points by you and Balt.... !!

I remember reading something Trey Gunn mentioned regarding an instrument he could not live without [*which I wasted no time tracking down and buying one for myself based on what he wrote], with I quote here:

The Godin Glissentar. I first came across this around 2000 and I had to try it. It is modeled on the oud, which I love the sound of. And I loved the string configuration: Eleven strings in six groups. The top five strings are doubled in unison and the low string is on it's own. I had never played a fretless instrument before and felt a bit dubious about taking it on now. I had heard so many different musicians complaining about fretless bass players that played out of tune. But... screw it, I had to try this guy and ordered one. It wasn't so hard to play in tune at all. OK, I'm sure I am not perfect on it and I can totally hear when I am really out, but it is wonderfully fun to play. I tune it in fifths like a cello so the low string is a C. Oh wait, no it isn't. I tune it down a whole step from that, so the low string is a Bb. That is pretty wierd for me, but it works. The thing I like most about it is that it makes me think and hear so much more melodically than any other instrument. Plus it is real ear opener to to hear what a true major 3rd or minor 7th sounds like. You can't do that on a fretted instrument.

I personally could not agree with this sentiment more.
Also, one of the things I love about fretless instruments is how sometimes it is necessary to be not exactly on the mark with one's fretting, where one needs to be a little off, and instead of it being wrong - it's exactly what is needed to make a piece of music really speak.

One time,playing a fretless Mojo Vibemaster that was made for me in the early 1990s, I had a bit too much Cold Duck during the session, so my intonation was at times a bit sloppy BUT upon playback, it was discovered that while playing chords - the sloppiness made for a natural chorus and vibrato as the notes were "beating" and that's just not possible with a fretted instrument.

My vote goes to the author of this thread; tune your instrument to make her really sing for you, and give you inner peace.

Speaking of inner peace, I know my comments tend to be super long, probably too long but I can't help that because music plays such an important role in my life, and once I get going here, it seems that I can't stop.

Sadly, my father has taken ill... so I'm not going to be on here that much for the time being, as family comes first with me - so, while my absence may be viewed as a blessing by some, please know that I value the community here very much and while at times I may not agree, I do always learn something new each time I log in.

Also know that this sad period of time for me and my family is providing some astonishingly beautiful compositions on my end, using both Stick # 1855 and a very nice old world lute - not at the same time, but I hope someday to get these pieces recorded here at home in the studio, using both instruments... and then find someone who is doing short. experimental film and see if it could work as a sound track.

Jan, that last line brought me a much needed laugh, cheers mate !!

Nice one B.W.Oceans, and with a hint of cynicism in your advocacy. It's a subject close to the hearts of all concerned with the art of sound. And here I come from the westermost time zone, a latecomer to this stimulating discussion.

Not to complicate matters but "pulse of awareness" must also be considered. As you age, it usually slows down, so the music should seem to go by faster. But what about the sound waves themselves as they pass by your ear? Is the perceived pitch higher? The answer is "no" (speaking for all of humanity), and why? That is the question.

This disparity might have to do with the brain's exceptional modularity (?)

To Big G., I hope you do try to keep your Sticks in tune. Relative pitch is of course your choice for cultural identification and peace of mind.

Oh, absolutely as far as my Sticks are concerned....
Just tonight, I was outside with Ironwood # 1855 tuning her for real, as I felt the strings which I installed had enough time to settle.
As astonishing as this sounds, the bass strings were very very close to being on the money - hence my love of C G D A etc.... I know and understand that logic and tone like the back of my hand.
But the melody strings were a different story all together - as I was not even close with any of them.
ixlramp mentioned elsewhere that the tension for tapping instruments is far less than a typical bass guitar for example, so I was ultra careful with bringing up the melody strings to proper pitch.
Long story short - every string except the high D [string # 1] tuned perfectly, and with relative ease...
String # 1, the high D on the other hand brought much drama, as I did not like the way it was gaining and losing tension, and I was very carefully looking at the tuner the whole time.
Next thing I knew - without warning - it broke, and so did my heart.

I then thought about how the spare high D that was given to me when I bought Stick # 1855 also broke, without warning and how the original high D according to the owner broke as well.

So, I went back into the spare pack of strings - actually, the strings which came with this particular Stick as I wanted to change them and get everything right, well.... I decided I'd use the string that was in the # 2 position just for the sake of having 10 strings on Stick # 1855...

To my surprise, the # 2 string which I was using as a temporary replacement seemed to be of less diameter than the actual # 2 String which came out of the S.E. strings pack... so I started very carefully bringing up this replacement string up to pitch and suddenly I realized that this was a very bad idea - so I un-plugged the tuner and did it by ear through my practise amplifier [more on that later....] and lucky for me, I realized as I felt the tension rise that I needed to stop, and where i stopped strangely enough was at the exact tuning of string # 3 !!

So, # 1855 is tuned to correct pitch less string # 1, which is the same as string # 3, and you know what... I had a ball for a solid hour playing in my front yard, watching the sun set... just doing math rock... meaning rythymic music from a repetition stand point, just to get a feel of # 1855 properly tuned [less string # 1...]

So, now I am left wondering if there is an issue with string # 1 which I am missing, or if this was just operator error on my part.

I'm going with the later... but either way a lovely way to enjoy this most lovely evening, and before I forget I was playing through a Roland Street amp, the small wedge shaped amplifier with 2 inputs....

There's a thread where someone is asking about a practise amp, and as I read the thread a while back, it almost sounded like people were discussing recording as opposed to practise.

Practise to me is just that.
All I need is to hear the sound of what my instrument is hopefully making based on where my fingers are falling, and that little Roland really does the job quite well.

There's a bigger one called the Roland Street Ex which I also have, but I like that my neighbors like me, and don;t want to ruin a good thing