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 Dual bass reciprocal 
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Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:09 pm
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Post Dual bass reciprocal
Hi all,

As a new stick owner/player I am starting to get to grips with my new 10 string grand and am loving the instrument.

I had a hard time choosing which model to go for as I am primarily looking to use the stick for bass rather than as an entirely solo instrument. But I also wanted to get the 'full' stick experience too - with wider possibilities than standard bass tuning.

One thing that has really caught my eye on the SE website is the idea of Dual Bass Reciprocal tuning. It seems to me this might really work for me as it opens up lots of possibilities for really interesting bass work and also might be ideally suited to the 10strGrd with the wider string spacing.

Anyone have any thoughts?

Also would the setup change from matched reciprocal (intonation, truss rod) be difficult? I am in the UK and can't afford to ship it back to the US to have Emmett do it, but I also don't want to bodge the job myself if it is tricky?!

Any guidance much appreciated.

Cheers

James


Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:34 am
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Post Re: Dual bass reciprocal
I will be setting up my good old rosewood 10 string to DBR in the following days (as soon as I have time). With a modern adjustable stick it should be fairly easy; you only need a GOOD tuner, the truss rod wrench, a couple of screw drivers and LOTS of patience...

I'm sure Greg can give us more details about this since he has (or had?) a DBR tuned Stick.


Cheers, Daniel.


Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:39 am
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Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:09 pm
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Post Dual bass reciprocal
Hi Daniel,
Good luck! I'd be really grateful if you'd be prepared to share what you do and how to make the change.

I've been watching some of Greg's DBR videos and think this is the way forward for me - but I am no guitar tech and am scared of ruining my new stick :-)

Thanks

James


Wed Jul 11, 2012 10:49 pm
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Post Re: Dual bass reciprocal
I'll try to document the process.
Regarding the fear of ruining your stick; the Stick is a pretty solid instrument, you won't break it if you use some common sense. This means to use the proper tools (the wrenches that came with your instrument and flat + Philips screw drivers of the proper size) and never apply too much force.


Daniel.


Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:59 am
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Post Re: Dual bass reciprocal
Jameslord wrote:
Hi Daniel,
Good luck! I'd be really grateful if you'd be prepared to share what you do and how to make the change.

I've been watching some of Greg's DBR videos and think this is the way forward for me - but I am no guitar tech and am scared of ruining my new stick :-)

Thanks

James

Hi James (and thanks, Daniel for chiming in on the thread)

I don't have a Ten String Grand in DBR currently, but it is a really nice structure for that tuning.
Are you planning on using the low B or low C at the string 6 X fret position? If low C, then you don't need to change anything on the bass side.

The bridge nut and pickup settings will all need to be changed for the current 1-5 strings.

Generally the bridge screws will need to be higher, but watch when there is a stepped string (like your current lowest bass string) to make sure that it is.

this photo shows the general arc of the string heights:

Image

the intonation slide blocks will all need to be moved closer to the tail of the instrument, with the block for 5 set slightly "longer than" where the block for 7 is now, and then each string gradually shorter as you move to the outside. thinking about the tuning itself, this means that string 4 will be slightly shorter than 7, string 3 will be "longer" than string 8, but shorter than 4, 2 slightly shorter than 3, and one slightly shorter than 2.

You didn't say if you have a PASV-4 or and ACTV-2, but there pickups can both be adjusted to matched the strings sets quite easily.

For the nut (thank you Emmett for an adjustable nut!), you will need to lower the flaps until the damper is working, as the strings will rider higher in the "V" slots.

I hope that helps!

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Thu Jul 12, 2012 5:45 am
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Post Re: Dual bass reciprocal
The "redundancy" in the tuning will blow you away. fast passages and alternate fingerings. unisons, octaves. i have a 12-string and the 5ths side goes higher than the 4ths side. whew! tenor guitar and Bass Heaven (or Hell).

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Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:44 pm
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Post Dual bass reciprocal
Thanks Greg - that's incredibly helpful. I am planning to leave the bass side as is (low C). The pickups are ACTV-2. Will I need to adjust them?

Sorry for all the questions! ;-)

J


Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:08 pm
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Post Re: Dual bass reciprocal
Greg, would you recommend to tune to C or B (at the X-fret, first playable note)? I have a new DBR medium gauge string set from S.E and a 36'' standard 10 string rosewood with ACTV-2. This half step difference makes any difference with the intonation?
Does anybody tried DBR with an ACTV-2?


Cheers, Daniel.


Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:38 am
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Post Re: Dual bass reciprocal
Jameslord wrote:
Thanks Greg - that's incredibly helpful. I am planning to leave the bass side as is (low C). The pickups are ACTV-2. Will I need to adjust them?

Sorry for all the questions! ;-)

J
No worries about the questions, that's why I'm here. Whether or not you need to adjust the pickups depends on the levels after you change the tuning. I would say probably the end of the pickup under string 6 will need to be lowered. The screw for this is under the lowest bass string.

You may also need to alter the mono level for that side using the trim pot on the inside of the module.

The best way to test all of this would be to run the outputs through two equal gain paths (ie two channels of a mixer set to the same values) and adjust them accordingly, but not in mono. Once you have the pickup levels balanced, then check the mono levels.

arsacane wrote:
Greg, would you recommend to tune to C or B (at the X-fret, first playable note)? I have a new DBR medium gauge string set from S.E and a 36'' standard 10 string rosewood with ACTV-2. This half step difference makes any difference with the intonation?
Does anybody tried DBR with an ACTV-2?

Cheers, Daniel.
Daniel, I like the low C because I'm more familiar with the notes in the 5ths that way. The intonation should be okay with just that half step, but compare the lowest string diameters to see if the low B string is the same gauge.

Emmett is really expert at "balancing" the tone and feel of the strings for the DBR tuning.

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please don't PM me, If you want to get in touch use email stickist@aol.com

Stick Lessons by Skype and Google Video Chat


Fri Jul 13, 2012 5:49 am
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Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:09 pm
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Post Re: Dual bass reciprocal
Well I did it - and it turned out to be very straightforward thanks to your help and Emmet's very logical design. It is actually a lot easier to set the intonation on a stick than it is on a Strat!

First impressions are that a 10strGrand in DBR is 'exactly' what I wanted a Stick to be. :-)


Sat Jul 28, 2012 10:08 am
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