baldol wrote:

money and music????
be commercial doesn't mean being a musician
carefully use of talent toward being a show man playing an insttrument
it is not being a musician ...
I cannot think of a musician having real money from it.
(that would make a Just Bieber a musician ... )

After 20 years of studio recording and production i can say
that money comes with hard work done outside being a musician

there is plenty of talent out there
the one that has the right commercial machine behind
will make some money ...
the others will drools

I've never judged musicians by how much money they make. If you can make a living from something else and have enough energy, time, and motivation to be musically creative on the side, more power to you.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "real money", but I do know several people who make a "real" living from music. It's not really that hard, but a lot of musicians just don't have a clue how to be self-sufficient.

Cheers,
Andy

exactly

As long as I have known here she has been using SooperLooper for looping. But the SooperLooper plugin is hosted in Live.

I think it gets interesting when loopers are used as instruments. Anything that helps out a unique musical expression is cool with me. I don't mind people using cello bows on Sticks, anything goes if it makes any artistic sense. Backing tracks is less easy to generalize over, but I've heard some concerts where backing tracks were used in a way that helped the listening experience (Jon Hassell, Eyvind Aarset for example). Myself I loop less when playing the Stick because the Stick allows you to do more complex music instantly - but when performing with just a flute I tend to loop so much as the looper is being played more than the flute and I look at it all as just one meta instrument.

Hi, Brett!

I think that loops are good for polyrhythmic pulsations in some genres of music. For improvisation with a floating point or a down beat it conceals power a little

I think it would be a mistake for anyone to compare that autochord thing to a looper like the Echoplex. "loopers" seems to be a a pretty broad term these days.

If you haven't already, give a listen to Andre LaFosse's Echoplex work to hear some truly unique and creative looping. His live, on the fly improv's are truly amazing. He was one of the first artists that influenced me to get involved with the Echoplex, in addition to Glenn Poorman.

The stick and the Echoplex can be a powerful combination in the right hands.

I learned a handful of technical tricks from Andre. He is a real master and a great musician.

As far as Stick players go, Cides has always been pretty inspirational to me.

A couple of summers ago I had the pleasure of seeing Phil Keaggy live and he really knocked my socks off as well.

I was hoping someone would mention him.
Very interesting discussion. It's nice to get to know you all better through your opinions on something like this.
For me, I've been keyboarding since 1984 and doing music which is at least partly (sometimes mostly) electronic in nature since about the same time.
There's a lot to consider when weighing in on something like this, and many great points have been made so far.
For me, a nuanced, emotional performance on a solo instrument will always be at the top of this pyramid. Think Yo Yo Ma. That said, that same emotion and nuance can be achieved in a group setting, and I think we all have been deeply moved by groups in the past. The Eagles, Mark Knopfler, Peter Gabriel. There can be something spiritual about an emotional performance. It goes way beyond theory, though a solid grasp of musical mechanics (in some form) is vital to achieving it.
It's more about the emotive quality than anything behind the scenes, or "how" that was achieved. However, that emotion is a lot more authentic and genuine when it is "man and instrument". Follow that to its ultimate however, and none of us is a "real" musician besides solo vocalists.
On the other hand, "canned" is canned and if there isn't any feeling to it people will know. This goes for live players and those who play with accompaniment both. When an "artist" is up there "phoning it in", we all can tell, and that's not helping anyone.
Sound scattered enough for you? I guess I know what I mean. If you're "feeling it", it's good. If you're not, it's not. Loopers, backing tracks, etc., or not.

~Michael

Looping as a technique, done in moderation, can augment a solo performance nicely. There are many here that have demonstrated it.

The technique has has morphed into it's own genre. and in my experience, it seems, at times, more enjoyable for the artist to play than it is for the listener to hear (which explains the Maroney attachment). The looper subculture is evolving though, so I am optimistic there will be a little light under the sun for them yet.

Keller Williams rides that fine line in between the two and has a really good time doing it. Fun short video of him here using looping sparingly and with mastery:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4pU3_Ia97E

Everything (except coffee) in moderation.

Heh heh! Certainly you have to work up these tunes with your audience in mind. Every original looped tune I've ever performed likely began its life as a two hour long exercise in self indulgence. Sometimes I would even just set my instrument down, sit down in a chair, and listen for a while. My wife particularly liked it when I did this in the wee hours of the morning

But then comes the trimming that I do before it's ready to go live. I've done workshops on looping before and have always stressed putting yourself in your listener's shoes so you can keep the tunes interesting and keep them from dragging on too long.

But then again, you could stress the same thing to a lot of "jam bands" too