I was wanting to talk to everyone about an interview I read of Alan Holdsworth. He said the reason he opted for a four finger approach to scales and improv is because he learned from analysis that guitarists were somewhat locked into three note ideas. I went overboard previously when I said what's the use of tuning in fourths to play three notes per string if you don't have any plan on doing that. Holdsworth has the option to do both. In thinking about this there is also the story about how Eddy Van Halen was sitting around trying to transcribe Holdsworth solos and since he couldn't or didn't want to stretch his hand as far, he started using the index finger of his right hand to reach the distant note and that's how he came up with his famous tapping approach to melodic playing.

In the example score I posted in the "chord/key question" thread of a possible route through a solo on changing dominant chords is what I would consider to be a very difficult line for most guitarists. It has nothing to do with their years of experience or lack of skill. It has to do with the common patterns that easily fall under the hand on a guitar. Holdsworth wrote a book called "Reaching for the Uncommon Chord." Another book he could just as easily have written might be called "Reaching for the Uncommon Melody." If you like the solos in my recently posted tune Sujata in Showcase, then I've given you a couple of ways of learning that kind of improv approach if you're interested. This post is supposed to help fill in the gaps.

In any event, you don't play guitar. You play stick. One idea I had was instead of creating a line using tetrachord motifs with four notes in it, go ahead and just use three notes of the tetra chord instead. Then it will be much easier to repeat that shape higher up on the next note starting on the same string and same finger you started with previously.

The other idea is to momentarily bring your left hand into play to make it easier to get the four. This idea is far fetched though because your left hand is usually too busy. But if you've got a bass player and the stick is in a chording and soloing role. Then by all means use two hands to squeeze the line out that you want. Then you will also have the tools for playing ideas based on three and ideas based on four.

In retuning the stick to m3rds, I'm hoping to move to a duple situation instead of Holdsworths quadruple situation. I wanted to ask Greg and the rest of you how fast your pentatonics are. They use two notes per string which of course is a multiple of four.

In playing this melodic dialect I feel it makes things easier if you just think in terms of shape and only keep track of the note names on one string. If you haven't played a shape for a while, then it's time to play it again and you just plop it down on the next note of the middle ground. Then you only ever have to remember the four notes you planned on using for the measure as per my posted example solo score. Actually, in performance if you play two middle ground in a row that don't resolve into a chord tone, it's not going to matter a bit. Also, if you just remember what scale should be used for that chord then you can compose the four notes of the middle ground on the fly and you don't have to memorize anything except the motivic shapes.

If you give it a try. Let me know how it turns out.

For playing this way you'll only need a limited number of motifs.

As per Greg's Lessons you'll need to know your intervals which are basic melodic cells in the jazz organism.

m2 M2 m3 M3 P4 TT P5 m6 M6 m7 M7 and 8ve. But if you just think of them as aural shapes, I think that's going to get you through this kind of playing much easier. You might even choose to play them only one way every time since there's at least two or three ways of playing each one skipping strings etc... Maybe only use the one that starts with the first or second finger and memorize/plan to use only those shapes.

You'll also need to know your scales. There are two kinds to employ: Tetrachords and pentatonics.

Lower Ionian, Lower Aeolian, Lower Phrygian, Lower Lydian. You don't absolutely need them but there's also Upper Harmonic Minor, Whole Tone, Half Whole, Whole Half..

Frank Gambale in his book said you should eventually know how to play everything from everywhere so if you want to start in the middle of a pentatonic scale and descend rather than ascend, you shouldn't have to think too much about it. It should be fairly automatic. If we think of the pentatonic as a min7 arpeggio with an added four scale step, it will have four inversions besides the root position and eventually you should know all of them. However, if you're just starting out it's going to be fine to use the root position form every time until you're ready for something more difficult.

As for arpeggios there's Maj, min, dim, and augmented triads which for beginners should be in first inversion because later you'll want to do planing where you move a melodic motif chromatically by step. These sound best in first inversion. These sound best because they don't attract attention to themselves as HARMONIC entities since they don't have a fifth from their lowest note and the ear more easily perceives them as MELODIC material. Lastly there's the quartal arpeggio which is also used for planing which is why it's included.

So there you have it. The basic motifs of modern jazz. Intervals, tetrachords, pentatonics and arpeggios.

>>Holdsworth wrote a book called "Reaching for the Uncommon Chord."<<

Just to clarify, Alan did not write this book. I believe it was Chris Hoard. Alan is not a staff and clef kinda guy. He said he thought that some of the tunes were innacurate in the book. The book is a good resource but not from Alan's pen.

Secondly, I have an opinion on much of your concern about fingerings and such. There are many ways to finger a scale, an arpeggio, a phrase or full blown solo. Guitar players sound "guitaristic" because they are often slaves to the infamous "box shape" scale patterns.
But if you really study music, it should be lead by your ear, not your fingers. if you get ideas form horn players, pianists and such, then it becomes musical ideas based on sound not technique. Studying a sax bebop solo will take the string player away from his/her comfort zone and thus foster a more creative musician. Too many times I've heard guitar players boast that they don't want to sound like a guitarist, but want to sound like a sax player. It's all good as long as you have your ear as the main guide. Pat Metheny told me that he usually composes without guitar in hand. He says his guitar techniques would otherwise limit his compositional style. Rather than write what he "can" play, he learns how to play what he hears.
So we all study our Stick and its geometry and logic. But it's important to be influenced by all sounds and then apply them to The Stick. Bob C. does an amazing job of finding new techniques to play music that should be impossible on The Stick. Also check out Ben Lacy or Tuck Andress who play things on the guitar that should be impossible.
Four notes, three notes, it's all good. The music is all there no matter the fingering. Just ask Django Reinhardt!

Yes, there is a growing number of guitarists who want to sound less guitaristic most of them are not successful to really do that well however. I've heard Tuck. He's got some interesting stuff going on.

What do you mean by that?

Jan-

What I mean is if you go onto the jazz fusion groups on Facebook and hear all the guitarists trying to do more on a guitar than play like a guitarist, not many people stand out. No one is making a name for themselves like Wayne Shorter has done, like Allan Holdsworth, or Frank Gambale. Guitar player magazine isn't filling up with examples of other guitarists who play like that. They're few and far between. In fact I can't think of even ONE other real contender. To be sure it's because this kind of playing is not obvious to a string player. Of course lots of people are trying and some are at an intermediate level of their development but the music industry doesn't make stars out of mediocrity now do they?

I'm not saying I'm going to be able to play as well as Wayne Shorter. I'll be joining the ranks of wannabes same as everyone else. I kind of feel the way they train for this is piece meal and not the whole dinner. I think maybe I'm onto something. I could be wrong. Maybe stick in thirds will not allow me to play the way I want. All I know is that I felt very limited on stick-in-fourths. My insight into the harmonic aspect has proven correct. I can easily play ten different voicings for each kind of chord quality; Major minor and dominant all in the left hand and still move the bass around. I don't think there's many stick players who can say the same. Maybe none.

It's much easier on my altered stick tuning than it is for Holdsworth or any of the other guitarists on Facebook. I don't stretch to reach nothin'. It's all right there. So, I'm thinking maybe my insight into melodic playing might also be right on the money. But it's still just an experiment. Hope someday I can get videos up here and you can judge for yourself.

There is no money in fusion so there will be no future "stars" in the fusion genre. When Metheny, Shorter etc started out things were different. Shit. Even girls listened to symphonic rock during the 70's. Too few are willing to pay for music that is not mainstream these days. One of very few jazz/fusion bands that has made it big these last 20 years is EST and no guitar player in that band. And Esbjörn died some years back. I myself am not too optimistic regarding fusion now. The same about symphonic rock. The only ones that can book gigs are pretty much the ones that made it big during the golden years..... Have to go to a meeting. More later. //Jan

Hey Lee Vatip.

That comment is classic



Some of my personal breakthroughs have involved me playing the Stick flat on my knees and playing bass and melody sides on a separate track with the home recording. Relaying on my ears, not my technique, to get the sounds out.

I then tried to make sense of the clusterfuck of ideas and definitely came up with new ways of playing that I hadn't considered until that point.

Like Lee Vatip said it's gotta be inspiration through sound, though my aforementioned method isn't the only way to create, how else am I going to be original if I just regurgitate common knowledge?

Oz Noy!!