Yes, it was blatant, but we're all adults here, and hopefully not easily offended. I'm not. I thought it was funny.

Kev

Re: the Feiten system, my point was that it's offered on the Megatars but it's not needed. With sufficiently low action, the benefits are reduced or eliminated.

If you move the "nut" closer to the bridge on a conventionally played fretted instrument, you reduce the deflection of the string a little bit. Music Man and Earvana are other companies that use compensated string nuts to accomplish this. On something with a zero fret, the placement of this fret must be in accordance with the Buzz Feiten guidelines. But if the string action is sufficiently low, the deflection of the string that the Feiten system reduces is not a problem. I don't need BFTS and don't consider it a positive selling point.

If you really want to talk to guys who are nuts about temperament, I suggest you go and hang out with pedal steel players... I was only trying to do a point-by-point comparison of the two tappers that I have experience with.

Isn't this thread supposed to be about cheap tappers and how they could bring more players to tapping instruments?

LOL--I confess that I perhaps took some of Greg's comments a little bit more "under the skin" than I should have. This thread isn't about me, though.

I do appreciate many of the insightful comments thus far.

Regarding your post, Kev, thanks for the insight. It'd be neat to see some clips of you in "your element," as it were. I tend to need flexibility (or rather, I've found I like having flexibility) in positioning, too, and the NS has been excellent for me in that regard.


Interesting that you came to the conclusion that the Stick didn't necessarily work for your own playing style. I mentioned earlier that I'd occasionally like to have the NS even more vertical than plausible (closer to a Stick, really), but I too do some funky/fusion stuff that's much more relaxed and easy to play at a more "traditional" bass guitar angle.



Woohoo! *Now* we're getting into styles and genres! While there's examples of stick music from classical through jazz through metal, I think you're right that the ergonomics of an instrument dictates certain techniques and styles of playing--which may or may not be more idiomatic to a particular genre of music....and may or may not be more idiomatic for a particular player, for that matter.

Also, consider a moment 88persuader's comment:


This comes down to finding the right "fit" for the individual artist, in genre, style, ergonomics... Judging by how much people agonize over "taking the plunge," I think 88persuader's right on that trying something this unique before you buy is rather critical. Though in Kev's case it obviously took a little longer to come to the realization that the Stick wasn't quite right.

I should point out though, that one of the reasons you don't see a lot of Sticks flooding music stores is the boutique nature of the instrument precludes stores stocking it--and I think this is *both* because of limited supply *and* the price point is above what I think many "regular" guitar shops might consider reasonable for such a "unique" instrument.

I respectfully disagree--because it does more than offset intonation issues with string deflection, it actually changes the temperament of the instrument (remember the nut is only 1/2 of the equation). But this is a very subjective argument because most people don't really care about temperament. For some I suppose it would belong in the same realm as audiophile "is-x-brand-of-interconnect-cable-any-better-than-coathanger-wire" arguments.



LOL yes! ....but I Greg "hit a chord" with me and I digress easily.

Call it a Freudian typo, (N next to M on the keyboard, early morning writing, etc.. I don't actually write the name Megatar very often, but from now on I'll do so more carefully. corrected and apologized for. )

Again, looking at all of the sales pitches for Feiten for guitars, I just don't see any of the parameters applying to tapping instruments, so I think it really is just a sales pitch, negatively pointed at SE. I'll leave it at that. Unless you're going to move all the frets, too, I just don't see it. The rest of the argument is kind of pointless, I think.

The zen tapper is the cheapest production tapping instrument I'm aware of... We've been over the downsides of that instrument already so I won't repeat them.

As Greg said, better to have no tapping instrument than a crappy one. How could a good one be made for cheap, though?

Does anyone know how the costs break down in the Stick?

Emmett has invented a lot of key elements that make the Stick work as well as it does. So if we're imagining this...

We need to put limits on it to make it cheaper. I'm thinking along the lines of polycarb - no truss. Probably go for alto/SG12 size since that makes straightness easier, reduces material and labor costs, and allows for cheaper strings to be used.

1) License/buy key parts such as the flaps, nut, bridge, frets(?) from SE
2) Build it out of a cheap, sturdy material. What is this and how do you do it? I don't know, but I can think of various options that would need to be experimented with. A cast metal frame is intriguing.
3) Pickups - Cheap actives? I know SE makes the Stickup - is there a way to make it cheaper?

Do all that experimenting, and figure out a way to precision mass produce them and maybe you'll get yourself down to a $500 instrument. It wouldn't be as good as a Stick but it might be decent enough to be worth making.

SE's a key element to this formula, and I don't know if Emmett has any interest in an Epiphone to his Gibson. If someone were so inspired it could have potential, but this isn't something you accomplish in a weekend.

I think the Stick's usefulness in the music realm lies in its uniqueness, and that is due to its relative obscurity. I think it should be that way. If everyone played a Stick, would it be as cool? No.

I certainly wouldn't buy a crappy instrument just because there are a thousand cheap ones at the music store. These instruments appeal to folks that either have a passionate desire to play that particular instrument, or to those that possess previous experience and wish to apply that advanced knowledge onto a more challenging medium.

k

On that note, I think I have heard stick play everything exept for a distorted rhythm rock guitar role.

Hi Varnon,

Does this qualify?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6rt1XaGmzs[/youtube]

RSS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6rt1XaGmzs

I'd respectfully say no. The video shows Nick Beggs playing his Stick in a "guitar-like" fashion, with almost no tapping. He's even holding it like a guitar. The music is great, but if I wanted to play a guitar, I'd go pick up one from this stand over here and play it...




There's no real good way to make it cheaper without making it worse, or making it offshore. SE could explore licensing the design to another company for overseas manufacturing but they probably don't have much of a reason to do that.

I would guess my personal reasons for wanting a less expensive tapping instrument are purely selfish - I always wanted a Chapman Stick but couldn't afford one. If I had just saved a bit of money instead of buying a bunch of "inexpensive" guitars I could have had one really nice Stick a long time ago...

It's so hard to talk about this subject without sounding like I'm bashing SE and Emmett. That's not what I'm trying to do here, I hope I'm making that clear. I love my rosewood Stick, and I don't feel any desire to get rid of it and buy a cheap tapper. I would ultimately like to have something a little simpler for playing live - anybody have an SB7??? Might have to build my own.