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Stand-up Stick Stand (SUSS), easy DIY project https://www.stickist.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=15004	Page 1 of 7

Author:	Scronk [ Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:22 am ]
Post subject:	Stand-up Stick Stand (SUSS), easy DIY project
Hi everyone, Recently I made a stand-up Stick stand (“SUSS”), so I thought I would share it here. It’s very stable and adjustable, and was easy to make. The build cost was reasonable too. This stand has changed my playing habits, because the Stick is now always ready and it’s perfectly angled to my preference. The instrument feels very free - consistent with Emmett’s vision - and it’s liberating if you have any kind of back issues (I do). Here’s the SUSS interface: After some research, I used the following (see below for further details on parts): The build The build is easy - I used a piece of project board (MDF) of about 13mm (1/2”) thickness. The belt hook sits directly on top of this board, and 6 holes are drilled to allow for the mountings. You could use ply if you have this. The design is very simple, you probably wouldn’t bother with 3d-printing, just measure, drill the six holes, and assemble. I found that Emmett’s belt-hook has M5-compatible mounting holes, which I used to directly attach the SUSS interface. Because only 2 bolts are used for the belt-hook, the SUSS uses two of the other holes in the belt-hook to connect to some selected drum hardware, making a complete Stick stand. Here are some pics of how I made the SUSS. The bolts are M5 (imperial #10-32, I think) with skateboard locknuts. I also used wing-nuts and spring washers to hand. The belt hook sits directly on top of the interface board: A quick spray with enamel paint, to seal the board: After measuring and drilling the SUSS board, re-attach the belt-hook onto the instrument. Tighten it well: Putting it all together Pass the M5 bolts through the belt-hook and through the SUSS interface board, then use wing nuts and wide flange washers to secure everything: Ready to play: Parts and costs Looking at the prices at Sweetwater, it’s possible you could DIY the complete SUSS stand within the price of the TAGG interface. Gibraltar SC-EMMP Electronic Module Mounting Plate This plate is intended for securely mounting electronic percussion gear into a drum kit. The plate is very sturdy and easily holds the weight of the Stick (say 4 kgs, about 9 lbs). https://www.gibraltarhardware.com/product/sc-emmp/ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00HX9F1N2 https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... ting-plate Gibraltar 6713E Electronic Mounting Stand This is the corresponding double-braced floor stand for the above mounting plate. In combination with the plate, you are able to perfectly position things at almost any angle you wish. It is somewhat similar to a short tom-stand. https://www.gibraltarhardware.com/product/6713e/ https://www.thomann.de/gb/gibraltar_671 ... _stand.htm https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... ting-stand What about TAGG? I haven’t seen the TAGG interface in person, but I understand it’s a nice wooden interface that joins the Stick to a regular hi-hat stand (see the linked movies below). Sadly the TAGG is no longer available. I think SUSS is probably a good alternative to TAGG if you're handy to build something. FHF-74 Tagg Interface https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdIhCqgP4QU A quick 360 degree tour of TAGG https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyfAefML7r4 I hope the above helps other folks. Any questions, shout out, I'm happy to answer. UPDATE: See below for an update on the wobble stopper... (Post #200.)

Author:	meugel [ Mon Jul 06, 2020 3:14 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Stand-up Stick Stand
Nice work! Thanks for sharing.

Author:	earthgene [ Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Stand-up Stick Stand
This is a fantastic post - thanks for sharing this...! Perhaps a separate post is required on the availability of the TAGG as, as you have mentioned, it is no longer available for purchase. TL:DR Warning - I am going to ramble about lapbars and stands now... A little history on the TAGG would have to include Mark from Hearstrings as well as the man himself, John Taggart. I was very impressed with Heartstrings youtube videos. They were a duo of Stickists that performed formal events in the Texas area. They had a sensational sound, which is no small task in performing as part of a Stick duo. That's a lot of strings happening all at once. One of the most impressive bits that I took away was the interface that they were using to hold up their instruments on cymbal stands. I reached out to Mark, who gave me John Taggart's number and worked with him on making a few of these for sale. He was extremely gracious with his time in making and providing these, a true luthier gentleman. He works full time with Fleetwood Mac as their guitar tech, which he is fully committed to these days. More recently, Eric Knapp had done some work on the TAGG (the KNAPP...?!), but he is more focused on other wood work projects these days. Eric made some valuable updates to the existing interface, the details of which he could provide, so the form has evolved although not commercially available. To start, Emmett has stated that likes playing the instrument using a belt strap. This is the way it was designed - he likes having it right up against his body, feeling the repercussion of the fingers on the fretboard and the resonance of the string across it. Greg Howard has remarked the same, it's almost as though it becomes a different instrument when it is not right up against you. The commercially available model of a lap bar is the LapDawg. I was quite honored to be included in initial discussions with a phenomenal musician, Michael Johnstone, and Emmett as this product came online. The LapDawg is the quintessential lap apparatus as it becomes part of the instrument and enables the Stickist to play sitting without any need for an external bar or stand. Michael absolutely hit it out of the park with this addition to the Chapman Stick. Lastly, the LapDawg can accommodate any Stick Enterprises Chapman Stick (8, 10, 12, alto, SG-12) format and fits perfectly in a case. The only downside would be that if you have multiple instruments, you will need multiple lapdawgs. Which bring us to the DIY models of the sitting Stickist. I have always likened creating a lap bar or stand for a Stick as making your own lightsaber. It's a journey that is personal and fraught with learning opportunities - there are many things to consider. Bob and Greg have both made their own and Dbro has created a video and specs on how to make your own as well. The SUSS fits in nicely with this DIY format. Things to consider 1. STABILITY: You will want to ensure that your instrument is stable. For that reason, I recommend a straight stand. You can find booms that convert to straight stand easily so I generally recommend those. 2. AXIS: You are working in a three-dimensional space when working with a lap bar. Because your lap is not providing the vertical (Y) axis, you need to consider height, the angle at which it resides relative to the stand (X, Y) as well as the depth of forward angle of the instrument relative to you. This needs to be consistent. 3. ACCESS TO PEDALS: In almost every case with a stand, you are going to sacrifice access to your pedals. The SUSS would be no different, so I would expect this to be a more ideal tool for at home practicing - this is how I used the TAGG with great success! How I love being able to walk up on the instrument and just play... 4. PORTABILITY: This would be the only real concern I have for the SUSS. The instrument is affixed to the stand, so one would require a screwdriver to remove the instrument from the stand OR the hardware affixing it to the stand would need to be removed and the Stick would need to be transported outside of it's case. If you're okay with removing screws each time you need to transport it, it's not an issue. I prefer not to unnecessarily remove and attach these screws as too much of that could impact the fit of the belt hook over time. I think the SUSS is a magnificent addition to the catalog of Stick Stands and would love to have one for my own 10-string Paduak (I like the dot stick upgrades!) at the homestead. I could see it being especially useful if you had multiple instruments too.

Author:	Scronk [ Wed Jul 08, 2020 6:17 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Stand-up Stick Stand
Thanks Gene for your review of Stick stands. We all dig into Stickist when researching a subject, so it’s great to have some history in a thread like this. I was interested in the TAGG story - I wanted to buy one of these previously when they were available, but didn’t get a round tuit. The idea for SUSS was to make something stable, adjustable, cheap, which folks could copy if they like. I think the objectives were met given it’s mostly about drilling 6 holes in a board. Just to comment on a few things you mentioned: Portability Yes, the SUSS is a semi-permanent stand. It can be detached in 5 seconds by turning the thumb key on the drum stand and walking away with Stick and interface (see picture below). If you need to leave the stage with your instrument, this is easy: But obviously you cannot stow the Stick in its case like this. It takes a minute or so to undo the 2 wing-nuts and detach the SUSS interface from the belt-hook. A screwdriver isn’t needed, just your fingers. In designing the SUSS prototype, I wasn’t sure how tight the fastenings needed to be through the interface board, but clearly it needs something to locate it into position. Locating lugs are another option. The TAGG solves this by having a slot for the belt-hook (which is more complex for a DIY project): Some time earlier, I made a stand with a recessed cut-away which retains the belt-book snugly and doesn’t require through-hole fixings. This could be an option for a SUSS Mk2, but it means having access to a router in the workshop: Adjustability (axes) I can’t speak about the adjustability of the TAGG, but the SUSS scores well in this area because the drum hardware gives you 3 different ranges of rotation, plus height adjustment. Emmett’s belt-hook incorporates an angle of 30 degrees and I didn’t correct for this: it’s meant to be there. (Does the TAGG remove that angle? I can’t tell from the pics.) If you wish you can adjust this angle with the Gibraltar stand, to add more or less lean as required. Pedals I’m sure it's true that most stands get in the way of pedalboards. Years ago I worked “in reverb” and we drenched absolutely everything in wet signal (it was the 80’s forgive us). Today I’m learning Stick dry, without any effects, just a combo amp, but most probably a pedalboard is in my future because I’ve picked up this nice valve boost pedal, and a swirling phaser, and... Gene, I really like your linear drum rack, that’s a cool thing. Did you intend to have a family of Sticks lined-up along that bar, ready to play? That's a show I'd love to see.

Author:	earthgene [ Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:10 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Stand-up Stick Stand
Scronk you are mighty! Thanks for all the additional details, it's so great to hear the journey from the perspective of someone who's good with the wood - I just bought and resold what John provided for me! For me, the SUSS is the quintessential home version of a standing Stick stand. It looks really stable, more than I can say for the TAGG which is at the mercy of where it attaches to the cymbal stand with a single wing nut. One of the most common concerns I heard about new TAGG owners was "the wobble". Emmett said as much when I first showed him the TAGG. In contrast, the SUSS looks solid, the axis the SUSS provides is on par with any other stand and the size of it looks like it might even help to sustain tapped notes. Thanks for noticing that pic I attached. I recently picked up a Gibraltar stand to see if I could get it to work. It allows me access to the bass midi controller as well as pedals but it's a pain to setup and break down. A drum set is probably more portable lol... I'd love to see SUSS' done up in matching wood with the wood Stick counterparts - such a great idea and execution. Your attention to detail is not lost on me - such a win for the Stick community, good show man.

Author:	AnDroiD [ Wed Jul 08, 2020 3:41 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Stand-up Stick Stand
Thank you Scronk, and Gene. All the photos will help in my build. I do have issues w/ the Taggart and wish to improve the interface to reduce the "wobble" issue. I have enough wood-working-at home experience to tackle this (and enough extra drum hardware), and now that my roomate has cleaned out the garage and set up a shop (he's a retired carpenter but was always asking me where his tools were), I wont hafta cut lumber on my bed or dresser. I'm trying to come up with something I can use to stand OR sit, so it's taking some "outside-the box (Stick) thinking. Getting close to the actual fabrication. Cheers to this great community!

Author:	Scronk [ Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:34 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Stand-up Stick Stand
@Gene, thanks for your comments - it's been a fun project. Hopefully someone else makes a version. @Android, I am fairly sure the SUSS could be used for playing seated, by just lowering the pole and the drum stand (widening the tripod). I will try that when I'm home. Quote: One of the most common concerns I heard about new TAGG owners was "the wobble". Emmett said as much when I first showed him the TAGG. Ain't that engineering! You fix one issue, only to learn where the next issue lies. Newton is still wandering around in the garden with his apples and laws about levers. The wobble is in the sum of the parts. The SUSS is stable, but there is still some movement from the belt hook itself... if you fasten something at point A (the belt hook) and then observe point B (the top of the instrument, 24+ inches away), you will see some play. I think the belt-hook and heel are made from glass-filled nylon, which gives some flex without complaint. It flexes here: We don't normally notice this movement when we're playing the instrument on our belt, because it's dampened by us holding it, and the neck strap provides a second point of anchorage. UPDATE: introducing the Wobble Stopper... I found that some of the movement from the belt-hook can be reduced by inserting something that absorbs the motion, similar to a shock absorber. A large rubber door stop fits into the space between the instrument and the belt hook. This works well and reduces the movement of the instrument on the SUSS stand. It would probably work for TAGG also. Here is the wobble stopper, it is a 50 x 40mm rubber door stop by Adoored: If we wanted something even firmer for TAGG or SUSS, another idea is to remove the belt-hook and the pedestal heel entirely, and attach a rigid interface directly to the instrument. This could include clamping something to the sides of the instrument, positioned behind the Block to avoid interfering with the playable area of the neck. Anyway, these are design ideas for a future time... Quote: I'd love to see SUSS' done up in matching wood with the wood Stick counterparts Yes I think I’ll do that, a good idea.

Author:	earthgene [ Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Stand-up Stick Stand
One thing I have found with the TAGG is that if you use a drum tom stand, inserting that all the way into the hole where normally it would mount to a cymbal stand, it is an entirely different experience. Very solid. Here's a cool pic of the latest Gibraltar setup.

Author:	AnDroiD [ Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:29 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Stand-up Stick Stand
I don't have a router. The garage-shop is not that well equipped. I plan to circumvent that by making it in layers, which gives me the opportunity for a novel cymbal stand interface. We shall see. That's some set-up Gene!

Author:	Scronk [ Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:49 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Stand-up Stick Stand (easy DIY)
I found one more picture of the SUSS stand, so I've posted it here. This shows the side view of the stand: The two bolts appear to touch the instrument, however this is just the angle of the photograph (they don't touch). I used 1.75" bolts, but I think 1.5” #10 (metric M5 35mm) should be fine. Hope this helps. Would be interested to see who else builds a SUSS stand.

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