Hi everyone!

I was away from the community and playing music in general for so long that I felt like writing a new introduction, but the forum killed my post by asking for the login when I clicked "Submit", so I'll cut to the chase this time.

I'm a new owner of a 2011 NS Stick. The first thing I noticed that it was completely unplayable with tapping, but that's expected: for the last few years it was owned by a guy who just used it as a fancy bass he played with a pick, with non-SE heavy strings and the bridge screws all the way up (and it sounds absolutely amazing as a bass. Considering that the original Made in USA Steinbergers now cost twice as much, I can totally understand someone buying an NS just for its bass role without any interest in tapping). I made sure that the neck is more or less straight, and then lowered the bridge screws all the way in until the strings touched the GK-3 pickup, then backed up like a quarter turn or so, so the strings are not buzzing against the pickup.

The action now is visually more or less on par with what I have on my 10-string, but tapping chords is still quite hard, I mean physically hard: a bit easier than on a non-specialized guitar, but nowhere near the Stick. I guess the strings' tension is too high, but perhaps the rails' size also matters?

So I would like to ask for some advice:
1) to people who play both: how would you compare the action and the effort required to tap (tuning aside) on NS vs The Stick? I've read the Russell Keating's comparison, and think he mentioned briefly that the NS requires more energy to strike a note, but doesn't talk a lot about it; and everywhere else people mention how easy it is to tap on NS (well, maybe if you're coming from a regular bass, sure!). Perhaps my problems now are no longer caused by the setup, I simply need to adapt my technique;
2) I see SE recommends heavy gauge strings for NS (mine is currently in the straight 4th tuning, and while mirroring the Stick tuning looks appealing, I will probably start my journey with this one), any feedback on heavy vs medium? I assume my current strings are even heavier than what SE calls heavy gauge, and I will still benefit from changing them, but I'm a bit reluctant to order something that says "heavy" if my intention is to lower the tension.

Pic.: my headless family welcomes a new member

Firstly, congratulations on your purchase.

Secondly, the hardness of the instrument is a result of many factors, but the two main ones are the height of the strings and their tension. This is mainly determined by their thickness. The thinner the string = the lower the tension. While the lowest string on Stick and NS has the typical dimensions of the corresponding bass string (.125-.128), the rest are definitely thinner. In the world of bass strings, they would probably be called "super light". To us - they are "Heavy". For example, as stated in the official NS Instructions, the recommended typical "bass" strings for NS Stick should be:

G -.030"

D. -.044"

A. - .065"

E. - .087"

H. - .128

This is much below typical bass average. D'Addario can sell medium sets with a G lower than the recommended D. Anyone who has tuned a stringed instrument knows how big a difference there is in string tension with such 5 semitones.

Reading NS manual, we can assume that the Creator's idea was to hang the strings as low as possible and to make the NS as easy to play as play on the Stick. However, if you also want to use fingerpicking, in my opinion this cannot be reconciled and a minimal increase in the height of the strings is necessary. This increase will definitely translate into a decrease in the comfort of tapping. If the thickness of your strings is greater than those recommended by Emmett, you will have an additional difficulty.

Personally, in my NS, I have melody strings set as low as in the Stick. They are just as easy to play. I have the bass strings raised. The H string is suspended above the 12th fret at a height of about 2-2.5 mm. This is higher than in the Stick. Tapping is therefore more difficult to play on it. However, I'm mainly interested in the NS as a bass.

Hey FuzzyT - good to hear from you man. Cool to see the Steinberger family reunion photo, your collection is complete.

My experience, while always impacted by the condition of the setup, has been one of position. That is to say, both hands are in different locations relative to a Chapman Stick and require a different energy or technique.

With the Chapman Stick, your hands are in a much more upright position, essentially pushing the instrument into yourself. Emmett firmly believed that this action was an integral part of the experience. He never used a lap bar of any sort (although I did try to sell him on the convenience of the TAGG, he was unimpressed).

With the NS, your hands are in a lower position than with a Stick. Not by much, but enough that the energy of the left hand feels weakened. What do I mean? I believe that the tendons in the left hand exact a small tax in energy because of this angle. Having to put a ~.120" string into motion on a 34" scale instrument comes at a cost.

My experience with the right hand was a bit different. I found that having only four strings limited my chords to two notes generally. Consider also that tapping a string on a 34" scale instrument is altogether different than with a 24 or 25" instrument. It feels different, like having to run a mile in shoes that are 2 sizes too big.

When performing with my band, the NS Stick was the perfect tool on which to perform the Cars first album, taking on Ben Orr and Greg Hawkes keyboard parts. Many of the synth lines were single note melodies and the bass lines were straight rock lines. I learned it on the Chapman Stick as well, it was a great learning exercise and challenge. The SY-300 guitar synth struggled a bit with the tapped string, which I came to understand in time and was able to work around.

With regards to gauge, I would expect that the SE recommendation provides the best response with the setup and the action. Maybe that's obvious? Emmett tended to recommend things that made setup and configuration easier (another opinion).

As far as the tension and feel goes, that may be something that will have to be discovered over time. I have used heavies on the NS and really enjoyed those while in the bass role. I tended to use the melody side significantly less when in the bass role which suited me fine as it allowed me to hit one or two part melodies with ease and accuracy.

Looking forward to hearing more thoughts and opinions.

Hi guys,

Thank you for the input, and it's good to be back.

Just to clarify, I'm only talking about the tapping feel isolated from other aspects. I haven't worked out the proper "strapped" position yet, so I placed the NS on a stool in front of me to simulate more or less the Stick position, and that's how I discovered the difference in the force required. Curiously, my left hand didn't mind neither different hand angle nor the extra heavy strings, it's the RH that I found hard to play with.

I don't have any precise tools, but even with a regular caliper I found out that my current strings are almost 1.5 times thicker than what SE calls heavy. So I guess that answers my question, these things have to come off.

I own both, got my start in 2004 with an older NS with bass guitar frets, then many years later Emmett bought it back from me as a partial trade to buy a new one with fret trails, and all Wenge.

NS will always take more effort not so much because of the layout of the strings but also the way it's held, more like a traditional bass. I once tried the medium strings, did not like them. Heavy as mentioned is still lighter than your average bass guitar string sets. Also I believe I use my right hand differently than most others, I try not to bend my wrist.

I tune mine BEADGBEA, and at some point I'd like to try some thicker unwound strings to get more back of what I'm tuning lower. What I miss about the old NS with bass guitar frets is by not changing strings it would develop a really nice tone that I could fingerpick and be real close to a bass guitar tone. Drawback was, that NS after about 10 years would play funny with slight amounts of fret wear. What one can correct with a truss adjustment is more difficult even with a hybrid tapping instrument because you don't want too much relief or else you are going to feel it on the thickest three strings. Fret rails make the NS a better tapping instrument. So i'm thinking the previous owner of yours was trying to go a route that's unobtainable. FWIW, I also own an NS CR4 with stainless steel frets. I've always wondered what an NS Stick would be like if the old bass guitar frets would have been made out of stainless steel instead. The harder metal would last better. I could be wrong, but the limited production of the graphite necked NS's might have had stainless steel frets. I played one when I went to a seminar in Australia long ago. Never got one as I preferred the Wenge neck.

I don't use my NS as much as my other Sticks nowadays, but what I find is the low B string on the NS Stick works better than any multi string (5-7) bass I've tried. I also have a fretless 6 string Ibanez, and that bass falls way short of my NS on the low B. The NS CR5 is a different scale length that I don't like, never tried a CR6 with the same 34", I've also been curious how the low B on that bass would compare to an NS Stick.

A more effective way I've found to make the NS compete with a bass guitar is to use a multi band compressor. For years the only way I could do that was through Logic, then I bought a Line6 Helix that has a similar compressor. For anyone trying to make a bass guitar out of an NS Stick I'd recommend starting with a multi band compressor before playing with the action and putting too many bass guitar strings on it.

Recently - thanks to Boaz here, I bought a pair of Spark Live amps, and the guitar tone of the NS through these are incredible. So now I'm looking at the NS in more of an extended range guitar instead of an extended range bass. The NS has also worked really well for me using a pick.

Merry Christmas everyone!

I finally had time to put on the new strings from SE on the NS. Even though it says "heavy gauge", they're certainly WAY thinner than whatever I had installed, probably even thinner than I'd like them to be... And, I have to admit, the NS has lost some of its sound quality with the stock strings, esp. in the "bass guitar mode", I can see why the previous owner looked for an alternative. Not that it's bad, but it's different, not quite like a Stick but also thinner and with way more overtones than a typical bass. I hope that the strings will mute a bit with use.

On the bright side, with the SE strings tapping is no longer a physically demanding exercise. Still, I haven't managed to get the action as low as I'd like to (let's forget for a moment about the "bass guitar mode" and the setup compromises it'd require), two points that concern me:

1) the neck is more or less straight as far as I can see, if I turn the truss hex even a couple degrees more the first 3 strings will mute themselves on the 2-3 strings no matter how high will I raise them at the nut: has anyone encountered this?

2) with the strings lowest possible at the nut and the neck supposedly straight, the strings are still quite high at the fret ~10 and higher, going any lower is not possible because of the GK-3 pickup. I think Russel Keating mentioned the same problem in his NS Stick review, and he ended up manufacturing spacers to raise the neck to clear the Roland pickup, but I wonder why no one else mentions this issue. I'd consider taking the pickup off altogether, since I don't have and don't plan for any GK equipment, but the exposed unused holes om the Stick body would likely bother me

I have zero NS experience & almost[1] zero GK pickup experience so I could be suggesting something totally unfeasible, but might it be possible to put some sort of (slimmer) 'blanking plate' in place of the GK, as an option to unused holes?

PS A previous owner of my older bamboo Grand was left handed & put the strap on the other side. The owner before me didn't like the holes that left when he moved the strap back to the usual side, so filled the offending holes by inserting a couple of small, bright, and quite 'smart', brass screws. He was happy with that & so am I.

Just a(nother) thought.


[1] My 10 string Graphite has the GK slot, and a couple of small screw holes where a GK used to be. I had no interest in the GK so I asked the previous owner to remove it in exchange for a price reduction. On the Graphite Stick the omission & small holes are barely noticeable (& I don't gig, so it's only me who sees it anyway).

Filling the screw holes with some screws is a nice idea! And, as you mentioned, probably no one else would see them, and even if I'd gig, no one would see a couple drilled holes on the dark wood. But I would know that they're there...
Also, in case of an NS there's a large hole in the body for the cable to go through it to the GK module in the back (I see that the more recent NSes often have the GK module in the front, I wonder if that's a cost-cutting measure to skip drilling the hole, or is it to allow removing the GK pickup without leaving a trace haha).

BTW, I found a piece of the missing puzzle: turns out my GK pickup is not entirely flat. I assume it was supposed to be flush with the bridge hardware, and maybe it was when new, but it bends slightly upwards at the end now, which makes it higher stand out (not by much, but we're talking about lowering the action to fractions of a millimeter). I lowered it a bit by gently tightening the screw, but it is still not completely flush.

Prior to getting an NS/Stick, I had been playing Stick for a long time. When I got the NS, I wanted the action to be more Stick like and less a happy medium for tapping and/or plucking. I think many NS/Stick owners don't approach it that way and that might be why no one else has reported issues of not being able to set the strings low enough. Funny thing is, lately I have the strings on the NS set higher and use it less and less for tapping. Things change ...

I added a GK to my NS and I put the GK on the front because I didn't like the idea of it on the back. Turns out I don't like it on the front either. Trying to get your hand in a position to slap/pop or mute the strings near the bridge is impossible with where I mounted the GK. I'd take the GK off and sell it, but I think having the GK is rare and I wouldn't want to change the instrument. I'd almost rather sell my NS as is and buy another without a GK.

One more point, having the neck shimmed gave me more room to set the GK height and it was nice to have the flexibility.